CycleCoach wrote: ↑Wed Aug 11, 2021 8:48 am
karatestu wrote: ↑Wed Aug 11, 2021 6:30 am
We are never going to agree on this so probably best we leave it there. I wish I never started this thread now..
Thanks for bringing this subject up Stu. It IS really important and definitely should be discussed.
Unfortunately, as with other important subjects, I'm already detecting the polarisation and conspiracy-embracing which often makes rational discussions impossible.
The overwhelming majority of scientists agree that climate change is a real and imminent danger to us.
So what are we going to do?
This thread as with most that have a political edge to them is in great danger of falling in to ad-hominem and I hate having to moderate. Climate change debate seems to stir up such emotions and anger and I can already detect some anger in this thread.
Yes I believe the overall majority of scientists agree. I can also see the argument that the earth has been in constant flux through it's history. The conspiracy theories are understandable I suppose and I have tried to understand them better. I am sceptical about the motivations of those in power or who can influence due to their levels of wealth and stake in capitalism but my scepticism has been totally outweighed by the shear level of scientific agreement.
The brain washing for the profit of the elite is a possibility but to me it all looks a bit David Ike. The IPCC is a United Nations body set up to advise governments across the globe. I fail to see how this level of possible corruption could happen. It has been said that scientists are influenced into agreeing with climate change theory to further their funding. Not sure what to think of that.
Anyway what are we going to do ? Well it would be a shame if the poor and vulnerable were the ones that have to pay through the nose but there is a very good chance of that happening. I think the UK's response will be the usual Boris hand gestures and empty promises. The move from ICE to EV is all very good but that in no way represents all the CO2 produced. Lorries, tractors, ships, garden machinery, cement production, aviation, manufacturing the list goes on. I do know battery is still more expensive than its fossil fuel alternative but I hope that changes as economies of scale take hold.
Cement production is a big one for me. Development is the driving force of capitalism and growth. Lets build lots of world class structures that are the envy of the rest of the world just to make the economic figures look good - who cares if those developments actually get used as long as growth and GDP looks good (see Japan). I do not know how that will be curtailed as more of paradise is paved and more parking lots get built. The main possible cement substitute is fly ash which is a by product of burning coal
I can't see the necessary speed of change indicated by the scientists can ever happen without the tearing down of capitalism and the constant need for growth. I suspect our response will be no more than fannying around the edges due to the need for growth, politics, greed, laziness and the head in the sand mentality (amongst other things). Most of the posters here may not live long enough to really find out what is going to happen in the next few decades.