'Real' bass - ported vs sealed speakers

[Lindsayt]

A sealed, vented, ported, transmission line, mltl, whatever, cabinet is not necessarily better or worse than any other, how it interacts with the room is and always will be the biggest single factor in my opinion. And you cant know untill the speaker is in the room.

I don't agree. When it comes to bass.

Because

1 if you had 2 drumkits. One had a good quality bass drum that was properly tuned. The other had a cardboard box with a pedal hammer that was wrapped with a large amount of cotton wool. If each drumkit was played in the middle of a field, they'd sound different. If each was played in a room they'd sound different. The same thing applies to speakers. A well engineered sealed box speaker can make a reasonable recreation of the sound of a bass drum in a field and in room. A slimline low efficiency ported speaker can't. Because it's not capable of recreating bass drum transients with any sort of fidelity regardless of where it's placed.

2 domestic speakers are going to be played in a room. The designer knows that. So why not design a speaker that works well with a room?

3 I've had hi-fi systems in many different rooms over the years. Never had a problem room in any of my homes. Had a problem room at Scalford one year. If I had moved into that room, I'm confident I'd have gotten it acoustically good within a couple of weeks.

[savvypaul]

I've not yet heard a speaker in my room that has both the sheer coherence and timing of the Quad 57 (or the MK1 Rega Ela) and also has real impactful bass. The Cube has decent bass (and clarity), and in a relatively small package, but it does not quite have the timing of the 57 (or the coherence of the Ela). Each speaker involves some sort of compromise (to my ears). Getting back to the OP, though, I have not found a small, medium or large ported commercial speaker that can add a worthwhile impression of realistic bass to excellent timing and coherence; I find that they are often the worst of both worlds. Of course, some ports have more output / effect than others.

[Geoff.R.G]

Domestic speakers are going to be played in a room. The designer knows that. So why not design a speaker that works well with a room?

An excellent question, particularly given that speakers are tested in anechoic chambers rather than in real rooms. Additionally, it appears that designers are attempting to achieve a flat frequency response from their speakers. Something that may be approached in an anechoic chamber but isn’t going to survive in the real world.

You know as well as I do that a flat frequency response is a selling point, despite the fact that it is meaningless for a speaker, and ultimately it is about money not sound. Yes I am cynical.

[savvypaul]

The 15" ones wont hit you in the chest with the bass any more than the 12".

Both went from sealed to aperiodic loaded, the 12s had the vent in the bottom firing at the floor, the 15s have it firing up at the ceiling.

Going from sealed to aperiodic vented was beneficial.

The aperiodic vent isnt meant to extend the bass response, it is supposed to have the effect of flattening the impedance curve where it spikes right up at resonance.

The vent has surprisingly little coming out of it.

A sealed, vented, ported, transmission line, mltl, whatever, cabinet is not necessarily better or worse than any other, how it interacts with the room is and always will be the biggest single factor in my opinion. And you cant know untill the speaker is in the room.

Having heard your speakers (in your room) before and after you fitted the aperiodic vents, I prefer them with the vents.

[SteveTheShadow]

…. A well engineered sealed box speaker can make a reasonable recreation of the sound of a bass drum in a field and in room. A slimline low efficiency ported speaker can't because it's not capable of recreating bass drum transients with any sort of fidelity regardless of where it's placed…

Transients do not directly depend on the frequency of the tone they initiate, so a small driver is perfectly capable of producing the attack transient of a bass instrument. However there are the laws of physics, which mean that for ‘realistic’ bass reproduction, a large driver is needed to keep the force going once the attack transient has passed. So whilst I agree that large means realistic, small will still reproduce the speed of attack, if not quite the whole body of the fundamental.

People often talk about “slow” bass, but bass by nature is slow. What they really mean is that the leading edge or attack transient if you prefer, becomes blurred in a badly designed speaker of whatever persuasion. When this occurs, the bass appears to lag behind the rest of the music, completely screwing up the timing and can affect pitch definition in the mid-range. I’ve suffered plenty of that nonsense with commercial speakers in my time, but the old 773s seem well enough designed and do not suffer those problems.

So as a reply to the o/p I would argue that it depends on whether you want just the bass notes or the notes plus the physicality. If you want just the notes, well reproduced, then a high quality, well-designed, small stand-mounter or slimline floor-stander will suffice and give excellent sound. If you want well reproduced bass physicality and dynamics to go with those notes then it’s large driver area and a ton of dosh.

[Daniel Quinn]

I just want to listen to Genesis and a sealed box 12 inch woofer plays it better than I've heard .

I don't look upon it as an intellectual exercise concerning attack, transients or other fundamentals of music reproduction .

Probably why I'm easily pleased .

Play Peter Gabriel 3 (melt ) An album designed to make infinite baffle rule the world .

[DaveyTed]

Can someone explain why there are so few new "sealed" speakers manufactured . Yes, I understand the bass output limitations but adding a sub with some output control should surely make them a viable alternative.
Maybe reincarnate Acoustic Research?

Tin hat at the ready.

[SteveTheShadow]

A bit of plastic tube is cheaper than a bigger bass/mid driver

[TheRealAleman]

A bit of plastic tube is cheaper than a bigger bass/mid driver

Then you have the cost of the crossover to consider.

5 n 1/2 or 6n1/2 inch drivers fit in narrow cabinets, which fit in well in the living room tucked away out of sight.

I'm actually falling into the trap myself with my DIY Kubes, and going for the narrowest box I can fit my 10" drivers in. ... 310mm square by 500mm when in reality a 500mm cube, would be so much better. If only She had my sense of aesthetics

[Lindsayt]

Can someone explain why there are so few new "sealed" speakers manufactured . Yes, I understand the bass output limitations but adding a sub with some output control should surely make them a viable alternative.
Maybe reincarnate Acoustic Research?

Tin hat at the ready.

As well as the manufacturing cost differences, there's the marketing and the fashion and the what's available in terms of woofers.

Slim fronted speakers are easier to market.
It seems that there's a certain amount of people that associate wide bodied speakers with ponderous, slow, woolly, old fashioned in a bad way type sound. Wheras slim speakers are associated with modern fresh focused and clear sound. As well as wide bodied speakers being the sort of thing that most people would rather be dead than have them in their living room. WAF rules.

Ported speakers are one of those long term fashions. Very few companies dare to be different.
Too many people in the hi-fi world bow down and worship the Frequency Response Chart God.

Most speaker manufacturers don't make their own drivers. There's a lot more modern woofers that are designed for ported boxes than woofers.

So as a reply to the o/p I would argue that it depends on whether you want just the bass notes or the notes plus the physicality. If you want just the notes, well reproduced, then a high quality, well-designed, small stand-mounter or slimline floor-stander will suffice and give excellent sound. If you want well reproduced bass physicality and dynamics to go with those notes then it’s large driver area and a ton of dosh.

I have not heard a single low efficiency slimline ported speaker that gives what I'd call excellent sound. With all of them failing at playing bass notes to a good standard.

Dynamics are very much a part of replaying music to any sort of reasonable standard.