HiFi Subjectivist ¦ Audio Forum ¦ NVA User Group

High or low ?

Doc used to say you could judge the quality of a DD turntable by picking it up and seeing how heavy it was. Others think low mass is better.

Some think high mass speakers are best whilst others think low mass (but strong)

There are high mass and low mass stands. The ikea lack table is said to be a good support for a LP12.

I am on the low mass side of the fence but I guess there are no absolutes. A Technics 1200 weighs more than a LP12. Steel lined speakers weigh more than the crappy chipboard donor but there is no denying they sound much better.

Stands are a funny one. I can believe low mass is better but it's not low mass once all those heavy components are put on it. When I researched spherical speaker enclosures one manufacturer ended up using 1mm thick carbon fibre because of it's low mass and high rigidity.

There are no absolutes it would seem.

On speaker stands I have had experience of both ends.
Low mass - linn kann 2 - with various speakers
Light mass - Pirate ( can’t remember other name) but these pillar stands I can only lift very carefully - must be 30 Kg or so

On balance think the Kann 2 ‘a were better for SQ , but also for my back !

Btw , no longer have the Kann’2’ s , but still have the Pirates as can’t get them out of the fecking house now !!!

Lining speakers with steel is for rigidity, if I read Richard correctly. The same would apply to plinths, speaker stands etc. I assume that if you could achieve rigidity without the mass it would work.

Also to mention this thread reminds me that the sound organisation stand was very popular ( light and rigid) and if I remember correctly was one on the first commercial hi-fi stands after the ikea coffee table ? Ahh nostalgia …, it’s not what it was

Lack tables are good, i take one to shows to put turntables on

18" woofers don't come light.
Big deep turntable main bearings and large motors don't come light.
Power amps. Pleasantly over-engineered power supplies weigh a bit.

CD players and DAC's, less is more. The power supply might weigh a bit, but you don't need a lot of power for a digital source.
Pre-amps. For systems that suit, stepped attenuators and selector switches are pretty light. Less is more again.

Lindsayt wrote: ↑Sun Jan 08, 2023 3:03 am 18" woofers don't come light.
Big deep turntable main bearings and large motors don't come light.
Power amps. Pleasantly over-engineered power supplies weigh a bit.

CD players and DAC's, less is more. The power supply might weigh a bit, but you don't need a lot of power for a digital source.
Pre-amps. For systems that suit, stepped attenuators and selector switches are pretty light. Less is more again.

There is no getting around the fact that some audio engineering weighs quite a bit. Transformers being the biggest contributer. There is no getting away from the fact that usually quality adds up in weight. Pick up these modern appliances with smps and they weigh bugger all. The case is often very flimsy pressed steel. Compare that to some of the battleship built behemoths of yesteryear.

But all else equal, what sounds best ? High or low mass ? I'd be putting my money on low due to it not storing energy for as long. High mass is also said to sound boring. Why is that ? Is it that it is not playing along to the music, smears the timing ?

My cd player weighs quite a bit if you include the five power supplies Lp12's sound better without the base board on but that is just fibreboard and weighs bugger all. Same with the lid.

The lack table is an audio bargain. I have never seen one of the sound organisation tables but seen them written about many times.

karatestu wrote: ↑Sun Jan 08, 2023 7:43 am
But all else equal, what sounds best ?

In audio electro mechanical engineering, I can't think of any examples where all else is equal.

We're not talking some bullshit made up Star Trek type material here, such as "liquid aluminium". Nor some bullshit engineering properties, such as the warp drive motors powering the ship to faster than light speed without squishing the crew against the internal bulkheads from the acceleration.
We've got real world 2022 materials. And real world engineering principles.

High or low?

It depends.

For turntable and speaker stands I've usually favoured light and rigid. Quadraspire, Sound Organization, Rega wall shelf. That worked best when I had Linn and Rega t/ts, but it's harder to achieve with a heavy, deep and wide plinth on my Garrard, so there I prefer decoupling with large isolation feet.

I've found that cubes play well on very light stands (Torlyte) sitting on oak cones and also play well on on heavier wooden stands with isopucks between speaker and stand. I've never got on with heavy and hollow steel stands, but that may be due to 'ringing';and other colourations, rather than sheer mass.

My instinctive preference remains low mass and coupling, but experience tells me that high mass and decoupling can also be very effective. Each case on its own merits.