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Form versus function
Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2022 8:56 pm
by karatestu
Do you ever wonder how much hifi manufacturers have to face this problem? Well as a start we shouldn't lump all manufacturers in together. It is obvious that most put more emphasis on aesthetics over performance and this is evident from a simple visit to a dealer. I don't have any recent exposure to this as I haven't visited a dealer since 2006 but Clive has and will back up that view.
There may be some who value performance over looks but I can't say I can think of any off hand. Some manufacturers will be somewhere in between where they have a difficult choice to make when designing. It's OK to make aesthetically challenged items when you know it's just a prototype. Things become a little different when the product is going to be in somebody's living room. How to balance looks and performance is a real headache and that view is just from my own limited experience of trying to design some loudspeakers. I expect this problem mostly applies to speakers and turntables where the design decisions are most evident.
Amplifiers and dacs can be bling on the outside and look any way you want, it makes no difference on performance that I can see.
Re: Form versus function
Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2022 9:37 pm
by Geoff.R.G
karatestu wrote: ↑Sat Feb 05, 2022 8:56 pm
Amplifiers and dacs can be bling on the outside and look any way you want, it makes no difference on performance that I can see.
Partly, if you design your box to be so small that you don’t have room for proper heat sinks or you have to put the phono stage on top of the transformer then it makes a great deal of difference.
Re: Form versus function
Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2022 10:32 pm
by CN211276
karatestu wrote: ↑Sat Feb 05, 2022 8:56 pm
It is obvious that most put more emphasis on aesthetics over performance and this is evident from a simple visit to a dealer. I don't have any recent exposure to this as I haven't visited a dealer since 2006 but Clive has and will back up that view
I have not visited a dealer for three years. When I did to audition the Mscaler I was wondering what partnering equipment would be in the system as they obviously would not have NVA or Sonore. It turned out to be a Leema streamer, top of the range Rega amp and Spendor WAF floor standers. I was not impressed by what I heard and had it not been for a home loan there would not have been a sale.
I used to pass the same Audio T for decades on my walk home from work. Naim equipment would feature prominently in the window along with Rega and Project turn tables. The rest of the geer was mainly Japanese, Rotel, Yamaha and Denon come to mind. I bought a Yamaha CD player and a Denon cassette deck from them in 1986.
Re: Form versus function
Posted: Sun Feb 06, 2022 12:32 pm
by savvypaul
karatestu wrote: ↑Sat Feb 05, 2022 8:56 pm
Do you ever wonder how much hifi manufacturers have to face this problem? Well as a start we shouldn't lump all manufacturers in together. It is obvious that most put more emphasis on aesthetics over performance and this is evident from a simple visit to a dealer. I don't have any recent exposure to this as I haven't visited a dealer since 2006 but Clive has and will back up that view.
There may be some who value performance over looks but I can't say I can think of any off hand. Some manufacturers will be somewhere in between where they have a difficult choice to make when designing. It's OK to make aesthetically challenged items when you know it's just a prototype. Things become a little different when the product is going to be in somebody's living room. How to balance looks and performance is a real headache and that view is just from my own limited experience of trying to design some loudspeakers. I expect this problem mostly applies to speakers and turntables where the design decisions are most evident.
Amplifiers and dacs can be bling on the outside and look any way you want, it makes no difference on performance that I can see.
People do buy with their eyes - and the emotional connection that makes. As a manufacturer, I think that your finished product should match your brand ethos and values. Even the most minimalist, budget design can still be made to be appealing - assuming the viewer prizes the values that you communicate.
An amplifier case has to sit on a shelf. It should please the eye, but it doesn't need to be a tank. The main attraction of bling, to manufacturers, is what it can do for RRP.
Re: Form versus function
Posted: Sun Feb 06, 2022 1:33 pm
by Lindsayt
I take great delight in turning up to bake-offs with kit that looks plain, or ugly or old fashioned or that looks like it will sound a certain way. And comparing it against stuff that the owner has paid more for, that looks fashionable / expensive / as if it will sound a certain way, with those looks implying better sound than what I've bought.
And then my kit sounding how theirs looks and vice versa.
Although I must stress that bake-offs don't always work out like that. But when they do, I'm delighted.
I own a few audio components that don't sound how they look. Unless, I suppose, you look under the bonnet at the engineering that's gone into them - with an understanding of the principles involved in getting good sounding hi-fi.
Re: Form versus function
Posted: Sun Feb 06, 2022 3:15 pm
by valvesRus
Lindsayt wrote: ↑Sun Feb 06, 2022 1:33 pm
I take great delight in turning up to bake-offs with kit that looks plain, or ugly or old fashioned or that looks like it will sound a certain way. And comparing it against stuff that the owner has paid more for, that looks fashionable / expensive / as if it will sound a certain way, with those looks implying better sound than what I've bought.
Inverse snobbery ?
I still have a pair of Quad 11 valve amps, and I like the "industrial" design.
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Re: Form versus function
Posted: Sun Feb 06, 2022 4:45 pm
by Firebug1
Weight is a funny thing, many people seem to think that heavy weight automaticly equals to a good sound.
Re: Form versus function
Posted: Sun Feb 06, 2022 5:16 pm
by Lindsayt
valvesRus wrote: ↑Sun Feb 06, 2022 3:15 pm
Lindsayt wrote: ↑Sun Feb 06, 2022 1:33 pm
I take great delight in turning up to bake-offs with kit that looks plain, or ugly or old fashioned or that looks like it will sound a certain way. And comparing it against stuff that the owner has paid more for, that looks fashionable / expensive / as if it will sound a certain way, with those looks implying better sound than what I've bought.
Inverse snobbery ?
I still have a pair of Quad 11 valve amps, and I like the "industrial" design.
*
Hi-fi as a mildly competitive pastime.
The equivalent of playing a round of golf with some mates.
If they've spent £5,000 on clubs, a bag, a trolley, a glove, spiked shoes, Pringle jumpers and I rock up with my unmatched half set of clubs I bought used for £80 and a pair of trainers and beat them, then I will take pleasure from that.
Or maybe it's the equivalent to challenging someone to a cycling race. Where the other person turns up with a £12k Colnago C64 and I turn up with a scruffy weird looking used £1k Quest Velomobile?
It's not really snobbery. It's being competitive. At a bake-off if something cost the owner less and sounds better, then that's the winner. Regardless of how it looks. In those situations the losers are welcome to console themselves with "Well I wouldn't have that in my living room."
Re: Form versus function
Posted: Sun Feb 06, 2022 5:39 pm
by valvesRus
Lindsayt wrote: ↑Sun Feb 06, 2022 5:16 pm
It's not really snobbery. It's being competitive.
Every home fest (I detest the phrase "bake off") that I have attended, or hosted, has never been in any way, shape, or form, competitive.
I think any competitive element would spoil the occasion.
Even the Audio - Talk Owston event is deliberately non competitive.
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Re: Form versus function
Posted: Sun Feb 06, 2022 6:04 pm
by karatestu
Firebug1 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 06, 2022 4:45 pm
Weight is a funny thing, many people seem to think that heavy weight automaticly equals to a good sound.
Doc used to say you could judge a direct drive turntable by it's weight.
I used to think heavy speakers, speaker stands and equipment supports were the way to go. Now I think differently.