HiFi Subjectivist ¦ Audio Forum ¦ NVA User Group

From a purely selfish point of view I would have been interested in what James1973 had to say but I suspect he(?) wasn't happy with my comment that the device doesn't actually isolate the cartridge.

If this product is as good as it is advertised to be it should be able to stand up to scrutiny. If, on the other hand, it is just a money making idea without technical or subjective merit it won't stand scrutiny.

Why not offer a review sample that could be passed around and members could make up their own minds.

There is nothing new or revolutionary about cartridge isolation shims. Just do a google to see what is available from plenty of other manufacturers. Funk are just joining in and benefitting from lucky publicity. Also, some are genuine isolators in that the cartridge mounting fixings are independent of the shim to Headshell fixings. This is just noise of the month.

Geoff.R.G wrote: ↑Sat Sep 26, 2020 8:23 am From a purely selfish point of view I would have been interested in what James1973 had to say but I suspect he(?) wasn't happy with my comment that the device doesn't actually isolate the cartridge.

If this product is as good as it is advertised to be it should be able to stand up to scrutiny. If, on the other hand, it is just a money making idea without technical or subjective merit it won't stand scrutiny.

Why not offer a review sample that could be passed around and members could make up their own minds.

If Funk want to sell them direct to members here at the trade price (which, I understand, is £105) instead of the £300 'dealer' price, with a 30 day trial, then I have no objection to them posting here. That is how NVA sells to you, and this forum has always offered a free platform for others who can demonstrate that they are serious about doing the same. I've no interest in having (paid) trade accounts here.

For items that are sold through distributors / dealers, we won't be offering a platform for those who have received the item for free and have no motivation to join HFS other than to shill a product on behalf of their 'employer'. I've nothing against distributors and dealers (or manufacturers that use them) but if they want to get their commission then they need to put the effort and expense in for themselves, and not by trying to gain advantage by misleading enthusiasts through disingenuous methods.

There are forums where mateyness with dealers and other 'players' is actively sought and their products are given away to 'influencers' and then promoted. That is not HFS.

Hifi 'Influencers'

How very 2020 can you get?

The hole concept of influences is a Croc of shit.

Daniel Quinn wrote: ↑Sat Sep 26, 2020 5:29 pm The hole concept of influences is a Croc of shit.

I quite agree! Why would I want to be influenced by somebody I have never hear of on a platform I don't frequent about a product I have no interest in buying and that I can't test before I part with my money. Also, why should I, should I be stupid enough to buy, pay them for getting free access to this junk? Following careful thought I have decided that what I thought was a typo is probably the correct "hole" in this context.

savvypaul wrote: ↑Sat Sep 26, 2020 12:46 pm

Geoff.R.G wrote: ↑Sat Sep 26, 2020 8:23 am From a purely selfish point of view I would have been interested in what James1973 had to say but I suspect he(?) wasn't happy with my comment that the device doesn't actually isolate the cartridge.

If this product is as good as it is advertised to be it should be able to stand up to scrutiny. If, on the other hand, it is just a money making idea without technical or subjective merit it won't stand scrutiny.

Why not offer a review sample that could be passed around and members could make up their own minds.

If Funk want to sell them direct to members here at the trade price (which, I understand, is £105) instead of the £300 'dealer' price, with a 30 day trial, then I have no objection to them posting here. That is how NVA sells to you, and this forum has always offered a free platform for others who can demonstrate that they are serious about doing the same. I've no interest in having (paid) trade accounts here.

For items that are sold through distributors / dealers, we won't be offering a platform for those who have received the item for free and have no motivation to join HFS other than to shill a product on behalf of their 'employer'. I've nothing against distributors and dealers (or manufacturers that use them) but if they want to get their commission then they need to put the effort and expense in for themselves, and not by trying to gain advantage by misleading enthusiasts through disingenuous methods.

There are forums where mateyness with dealers and other 'players' is actively sought and their products are given away to 'influencers' and then promoted. That is not HFS.

Sounds fair to me.
For clarity, I was suggesting that the manufacturer should make one available for members to test. Just in case anyone thought otherwise. There is no way I would pay more for this, or any such, device than I paid for my arm and cartridge (40 years ago).
How on earth something like that can cost £105 I do not know, unless it is made in penny numbers by a massively expensive machine that can do nothing else.

Geoff.R.G wrote: ↑Sat Sep 26, 2020 9:53 pm

savvypaul wrote: ↑Sat Sep 26, 2020 12:46 pm

Geoff.R.G wrote: ↑Sat Sep 26, 2020 8:23 am From a purely selfish point of view I would have been interested in what James1973 had to say but I suspect he(?) wasn't happy with my comment that the device doesn't actually isolate the cartridge.

If this product is as good as it is advertised to be it should be able to stand up to scrutiny. If, on the other hand, it is just a money making idea without technical or subjective merit it won't stand scrutiny.

Why not offer a review sample that could be passed around and members could make up their own minds.

If Funk want to sell them direct to members here at the trade price (which, I understand, is £105) instead of the £300 'dealer' price, with a 30 day trial, then I have no objection to them posting here. That is how NVA sells to you, and this forum has always offered a free platform for others who can demonstrate that they are serious about doing the same. I've no interest in having (paid) trade accounts here.

For items that are sold through distributors / dealers, we won't be offering a platform for those who have received the item for free and have no motivation to join HFS other than to shill a product on behalf of their 'employer'. I've nothing against distributors and dealers (or manufacturers that use them) but if they want to get their commission then they need to put the effort and expense in for themselves, and not by trying to gain advantage by misleading enthusiasts through disingenuous methods.

There are forums where mateyness with dealers and other 'players' is actively sought and their products are given away to 'influencers' and then promoted. That is not HFS.

Sounds fair to me.
For clarity, I was suggesting that the manufacturer should make one available for members to test. Just in case anyone thought otherwise. There is no way I would pay more for this, or any such, device than I paid for my arm and cartridge (40 years ago).
How on earth something like that can cost £105 I do not know, unless it is made in penny numbers by a massively expensive machine that can do nothing else.

Based on what others who have been offered the item at trade price have reported, I'm assuming £105 is the cost to the dealer. £300 is the cost to the consumer.

What does it cost to make? Well, assuming some R&D costs, tooling, packaging, the fact they have probably made tens of hundreds rather than tens of thousands, and being generous...around £20? If the price to dealers is £105, then a multiplier of 5 would give a build cost of £21. On it's own, that is not an outlier.

The next question is how to get dealers to stock it and push it. Dealers will be thinking that they are probably going to have to fit most of the ones they sell, and some will want to audition the difference, and they don't want to make a separate charge for that - they understandably prefer to read 'my dealer is so good they fitted it for me for free' rather than 'the greedy bastards charged me £30 on top of £270 just to fit it'. So, dealer margin needs to be greater than the standard 40-50% that you would find on mainstream components.

Next, dealers want to know that they will have a queue of people to buy them. So, their question to Funk is what promotion are you putting behind it? Reviews, magazine advertising, shows and social media advertising are the usual. Shows are off for at least another year, though, and magazines may be nervous about reviewing / taking ads for a product that is pitched as 'the death of the expensive tonearm'. How much is their SME account worth, for example? SME have been around forever and you might expect them to go on a lot longer than what is currently likely to be seen as a 'flavour of the month' item.

So, how to create some buzz? Employ a couple of guys to set up trade accounts, identify and recruit some influencers (shillers) across the forums by appealing to their sense of self importance and greed (not a difficult ask). Those who are close to the 'forum scene' will spot it pretty quickly but others won't, and they will happily pay the £300.

We have seen it so many times before. Coherent cables immediately springs to mind.

Pricing is a black art. It may be you have developed something that costs £5 to manufacture but people will pay a fortune for (ie, medinces)
.
If the houdini is as good as the hype it will be a bargain.

I am still not motivated to try.