Tinker, Tailor, Streamer, Pi.

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slinger
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Re: Tinker, Tailor, Streamer, Pi.

Unread post by slinger »

I think that Blue Jeans are a big enough concern in the audio world that if that crap was happening we'd have read about it long before now, as it goes against what they promise on their site.

Anywho, as I said, the cables arrived at around 9:30 this morning. The build quality looks terrific; they are quite stiff, and thicker than anything I've already got in place (insert obligatory ooh-errr missis here). They also came with the individual test results, as promised, and in the pretty colours that I ordered: Yellow between router and ATB, Orange and Purple between router and my two NAS units, and boring white to link the router and my TPLink 8-port hub. I've just powered down the NAS unit, so let the surgery begin.
Amps - NVA P50, A30, A40, Stanislav Palo Tube Headphone Amp BB 85
Speakers - Monitor Audio Silver RX2
Cables - NVA LS1+LS3, SSC, Gotham S/PDIF, IBRA Optical
Digital - NAD C516BEE, SONY ST-SDB900 DAB TUNER, TEAC UD-H01 DAC
Analogue - Pro-Ject Debut Carbon Esprit SB, Graham Slee Gram Amp 2 Phono
Cans - Grado SR80, ATH-M50X

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Re: Tinker, Tailor, Streamer, Pi.

Unread post by slinger »

Cables plumbed in and music is playing. In answer to the next question, I'm 2:21 into the first track I've played, so I don't know yet, but it sounds good, so definitely not a backward step. :lol:
Amps - NVA P50, A30, A40, Stanislav Palo Tube Headphone Amp BB 85
Speakers - Monitor Audio Silver RX2
Cables - NVA LS1+LS3, SSC, Gotham S/PDIF, IBRA Optical
Digital - NAD C516BEE, SONY ST-SDB900 DAB TUNER, TEAC UD-H01 DAC
Analogue - Pro-Ject Debut Carbon Esprit SB, Graham Slee Gram Amp 2 Phono
Cans - Grado SR80, ATH-M50X

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Re: Tinker, Tailor, Streamer, Pi.

Unread post by Fretless »

In cases like this I'm usually just happy to have music playing at all. :dance:
NVA: P50sa - SSP - A40 - LS6 - Cube2 - BMU
Digits: E-Medic ST-M PC + Volumio + AQ Jitterbug
DAC: TeraDak V4.5 Chameleon CD: Cambridge CXC
USB: Oehlbach XXL Masterclock + DH Labs Mirage
Ethernet: Silent Angel Bonn N8 + AQ Cinnamon
Cans: AQ NightHawk Carbon + MF XCAN v3

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Re: Tinker, Tailor, Streamer, Pi.

Unread post by Lindsayt »

CN211276 wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 11:16 pm
I am confused by the Cat specification. Are higher quality routers required to accomodate higher Cat numbers?
For the vast majority of home users, the router will be provided by your ISP. You could buy your own, industrial strength router, configure it and use that instead, but any technical issues and generally your ISP will trouble-shoot it based on you using their router. It's highly debatable if it's worth going down using your own router for home use.

For your internal home network (your LAN), you can use any switch or network of switches you want.

Any network connection between A and B will only go at the speed of the slowest NIC (Network Interface Card) or cable or switch that the signal passes through.

So that for example, for any connection to the Internet, the slowest connection will probably be the line to your house.
I know of businesses with networks of 250 PC's that were running at inter switch connection speeds of 100 Mbps and switch to PC speeds of 10 Mbps where all the internal traffic was lightning fast (printing, saving files to the onsite server, PXE builds etc) whilst anything off site was annoyingly slow (logging on, accessing data on Data Centre servers). All because the bottleneck was the connection to the outside world

The NIC on my laptop will only go up to 1000 Mbps (1 Gbps). That's a typical speed for a PC NIC.
So that in my LAN and the vast majority of home LAN's there is no point in having a switch that will go faster than 1 Gbps.

Speeds of 10 Gbps are mainly the realm of Data Centres. For a Data Centre, think Billion Dollar Brain - raised to the power of 3. A square grid of row upon row of data / server cabinets filled with servers and switches. Servers running internet banking or travel agents with hundreds or thousands of users trying to access their data at the same time. Servers talking to each other in order to handle the business needs.

For cables, Cat 3 and Cat 5 are junk. Bin them.

Cat 5e is fine from a home networking speed point of view. Please note that it's common to refer to Cat 5e simply as Cat 5.


I don't know if there are any sonic benefits to using Cat 6, Cat 6a, Cat 7, Cat 7a or Cat 8.
By all means feel free to try them. Starting with the connection from your music storage device to your switch (or router). And then the connection from the switch (or router) to the streaming device.

If for example you try a 5 metre £150 audiophile Cat 7 cable and you get a sonic improvement, I would recommend trying a Cat 8 cable (for example £18 from Farnells) as well. If the Cat 7 cable sounds good, the Cat 8 should sound just as good or better because it's made to a higher standard (thicker conductors and foil sheathing round each pair), whilst costing a lot less because it's not some audiophile wank.

If you have a gigabit switch (assuming it's properly configured) and Cat 5e cables, you will (very probably) be maxed out from a home computing network speed point of view.
The cost of maxing out is quite modest. Gigabit 24 port switches cost from £10 used on ebay. That'll be for something like a Cisco or HP built like a tank, should last for a very long time switch. Fanless ones from £30. I have so many cat 5e patch leads that I give them out for free to any friends or clients that want one.

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Re: Tinker, Tailor, Streamer, Pi.

Unread post by CN211276 »

Lindsayt wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 5:12 am
CN211276 wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 11:16 pm
I am confused by the Cat specification. Are higher quality routers required to accomodate higher Cat numbers?
For the vast majority of home users, the router will be provided by your ISP. You could buy your own, industrial strength router, configure it and use that instead, but any technical issues and generally your ISP will trouble-shoot it based on you using their router. It's highly debatable if it's worth going down using your own router for home use.

For your internal home network (your LAN), you can use any switch or network of switches you want.

Any network connection between A and B will only go at the speed of the slowest NIC (Network Interface Card) or cable or switch that the signal passes through.

So that for example, for any connection to the Internet, the slowest connection will probably be the line to your house.
I know of businesses with networks of 250 PC's that were running at inter switch connection speeds of 100 Mbps and switch to PC speeds of 10 Mbps where all the internal traffic was lightning fast (printing, saving files to the onsite server, PXE builds etc) whilst anything off site was annoyingly slow (logging on, accessing data on Data Centre servers). All because the bottleneck was the connection to the outside world

The NIC on my laptop will only go up to 1000 Mbps (1 Gbps). That's a typical speed for a PC NIC.
So that in my LAN and the vast majority of home LAN's there is no point in having a switch that will go faster than 1 Gbps.

Speeds of 10 Gbps are mainly the realm of Data Centres. For a Data Centre, think Billion Dollar Brain - raised to the power of 3. A square grid of row upon row of data / server cabinets filled with servers and switches. Servers running internet banking or travel agents with hundreds or thousands of users trying to access their data at the same time. Servers talking to each other in order to handle the business needs.

For cables, Cat 3 and Cat 5 are junk. Bin them.

Cat 5e is fine from a home networking speed point of view. Please note that it's common to refer to Cat 5e simply as Cat 5.


I don't know if there are any sonic benefits to using Cat 6, Cat 6a, Cat 7, Cat 7a or Cat 8.
By all means feel free to try them. Starting with the connection from your music storage device to your switch (or router). And then the connection from the switch (or router) to the streaming device.

If for example you try a 5 metre £150 audiophile Cat 7 cable and you get a sonic improvement, I would recommend trying a Cat 8 cable (for example £18 from Farnells) as well. If the Cat 7 cable sounds good, the Cat 8 should sound just as good or better because it's made to a higher standard (thicker conductors and foil sheathing round each pair), whilst costing a lot less because it's not some audiophile wank.

If you have a gigabit switch (assuming it's properly configured) and Cat 5e cables, you will (very probably) be maxed out from a home computing network speed point of view.
The cost of maxing out is quite modest. Gigabit 24 port switches cost from £10 used on ebay. That'll be for something like a Cisco or HP built like a tank, should last for a very long time switch. Fanless ones from £30. I have so many cat 5e patch leads that I give them out for free to any friends or clients that want one.
Informative and thought provoking.
System: DC Blocker, NVA BMU, Cisco 2960G, Sonore MicroRendu/MCRU PS, AQ JB, ifi iPurifier 3, Chord Mscaler, Chord Qutest/MCRU PS, NVA P90SA Mk2, NVA A80s Mk3, NVA Cube 1s, NVA TSCS, NVA TIS, Blue Jeans dual BNC, AQ Carbon USB, Cat 8 ethernet.
HP:Grado SR 325e, Chord Mojo, AQ Carbon.
Analogue: Rega Planar 3, Denon DL-110, NVA Phono 1, NVA SSP.
Second System:NVA P20, NVA A20, NVA Cubettes, NVA LS3, NVA SSC, Arcam Miniblink or Mojo.
Out:Oppo PM3, AQ DF Red, ifi OTG.

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Re: Tinker, Tailor, Streamer, Pi.

Unread post by slinger »

Excellent post, Lindsay. I chose Cat 6a as my "basic" Ethernet cable for the audio setup even though Blue Jeans make 5e, 6, and 6a cables. I thought I might as well go for their "top end" cable. I ruled Cat 5e out because it's unshielded and rightly or wrongly I chose Cat 6a over plain old 6 just because I could. Choosing Blue Jeans was a no-brainer. I know that one shouldn't put too much stock in the load of old codswallop written on most company websites but what Blue Jeans have to say made a lot of sense to me. In fact, it only took the first paragraph really...
The vast majority of cables sold as Category 6 or 6a, whether in brick-and-mortar establishments or online, simply do not meet the Category 6 or 6a specifications; we've put a lot of samples of a lot of other manufacturers' product through proper certification testing, and cables that actually pass spec are unusual. In fact, it's not uncommon for cables that are sold as "Cat 6" to even fail to meet Cat 5e specifications. Vendors get away with misrepresenting Ethernet patch cord performance because the average consumer isn't in a position to buy the $10,000 worth of gear it'll take to check his purchase against the spec. Here at Blue Jeans Cable we don't want to have anything to do with misrepresenting spec compliance -- every Ethernet patch cable we sell comes with its own individual test report, run on a Fluke DTX-1800 certification tester, showing that it meets or exceeds the applicable spec. If it doesn't, we won't sell it.
They also have Belden make up their bulk cable to their own specs. I've never heard a bad word about Belden, or Blue Jeans come to that.

It all, eventually, came back to my original decision to place more value on construction quality than fancy specs which actually far exceed anything one might need to pump music round a network and make it sound good.
Amps - NVA P50, A30, A40, Stanislav Palo Tube Headphone Amp BB 85
Speakers - Monitor Audio Silver RX2
Cables - NVA LS1+LS3, SSC, Gotham S/PDIF, IBRA Optical
Digital - NAD C516BEE, SONY ST-SDB900 DAB TUNER, TEAC UD-H01 DAC
Analogue - Pro-Ject Debut Carbon Esprit SB, Graham Slee Gram Amp 2 Phono
Cans - Grado SR80, ATH-M50X

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Re: Tinker, Tailor, Streamer, Pi.

Unread post by Latteman »

I just installed a cat 7 between router & Apple box- found 20m used on fb marketplace for £10.
I couldn’t get the additional hub to accept VM signal- must be decommissioned hub.
Analogue- DIY turntable from Thorens TD321, ARB unipivot Arm; Nagaoka SB mp200- phono 1
Digital Sources- Denon CEOL streamer/Cdp; iPhone Xr; Airport Express Cat7 & 8
Amplification-NVA P20 (modified) & A20LE (👍🏼)
Speakers- Diy Cubes; Ls6
Mini BMU to dc blocker

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Re: Tinker, Tailor, Streamer, Pi.

Unread post by CN211276 »

I had a look at the Cat 8 cable on the Farnells website. There is a pdf which goes into some detal with illustrations. What is inside the cable does not look cheap.
System: DC Blocker, NVA BMU, Cisco 2960G, Sonore MicroRendu/MCRU PS, AQ JB, ifi iPurifier 3, Chord Mscaler, Chord Qutest/MCRU PS, NVA P90SA Mk2, NVA A80s Mk3, NVA Cube 1s, NVA TSCS, NVA TIS, Blue Jeans dual BNC, AQ Carbon USB, Cat 8 ethernet.
HP:Grado SR 325e, Chord Mojo, AQ Carbon.
Analogue: Rega Planar 3, Denon DL-110, NVA Phono 1, NVA SSP.
Second System:NVA P20, NVA A20, NVA Cubettes, NVA LS3, NVA SSC, Arcam Miniblink or Mojo.
Out:Oppo PM3, AQ DF Red, ifi OTG.

RIP Doc

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Re: Tinker, Tailor, Streamer, Pi.

Unread post by Latteman »

Latteman wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 2:57 pm
I just installed a cat 7 between router & Apple box- found 20m used on fb marketplace for £10.
I couldn’t get the additional hub to accept VM signal- must be decommissioned hub.

Amazing- it sounds like ‘proper HiFi’ the general presentation is up- previously I could tell if it was cd or Apple box- not now- Apple box may just be ahead
Analogue- DIY turntable from Thorens TD321, ARB unipivot Arm; Nagaoka SB mp200- phono 1
Digital Sources- Denon CEOL streamer/Cdp; iPhone Xr; Airport Express Cat7 & 8
Amplification-NVA P20 (modified) & A20LE (👍🏼)
Speakers- Diy Cubes; Ls6
Mini BMU to dc blocker

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Re: Tinker, Tailor, Streamer, Pi.

Unread post by Fretless »

That is just going from a WiFi link to wired?
NVA: P50sa - SSP - A40 - LS6 - Cube2 - BMU
Digits: E-Medic ST-M PC + Volumio + AQ Jitterbug
DAC: TeraDak V4.5 Chameleon CD: Cambridge CXC
USB: Oehlbach XXL Masterclock + DH Labs Mirage
Ethernet: Silent Angel Bonn N8 + AQ Cinnamon
Cans: AQ NightHawk Carbon + MF XCAN v3

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