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Getting the best from Streaming music
Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 10:07 pm
by TheMarlin
Hi All,
I’ve got a question about getting the best from streaming music.
I’ve got an iPhone, and an Apple TV 3, Topping DAC and Apple Music subscription. I currently stream music from my phone to Apple TV, and run the digital audio out into a Topping D30 DAC and into my NVA system.
It sounds great, and I’ve been delighted with it for the last few months, but lately I’ve noticed that the top end is very thin, likely as result of the compression Apple use. It’s bugging me now.
It’s not the DAC, I have my CD Player set to play direct into my system, and also play via the DAC, and there is no comparison, the Toppings DAC is hugely better than the one in my CD player, very detailed and musical. So, it’s just the medium (compressed streaming music), or its the Apple TV 3.
Can improvements be made, or is it just the limitation of the medium? Would other streaming hardware help?
What other options do I have? What hardware are you guys using for streaming?
For reference, I mostly use vinyl, I use streaming music for convenience and to listen to new music....
Re: Getting the best from Streaming music
Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 10:44 pm
by Ali Tait
Yes improvements can easily be made, lots of options open to you. Have a go with Tidal or Qobuz, there are free trials available, see how it compares.
Not an area I’ve gone into as I still use my NVA TFS, but many people are getting great results with Raspberry Pi. Great VFM and can equal or better some expensive kit if you’re not adverse to a bit of fiddling with Linux. No doubt there are many here who could help with that.
I have a Mytek dac which I rate highly, and also a Lumin D2 which is a great plug and play streaming solution, but at a cost. I play Tidal through Roon on these which is the best sounding digital I’ve had at home so far.
Re: Getting the best from Streaming music
Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 8:45 am
by Fretless
Running things wirelessly introduces jitter and dropouts. Compressed music formats sound flat and lifeless.
I am a big fan of the Raspberry Pi and have several of those running here.
What you need:
Raspberry Pi 3B (about 40 pounds - can be used on Wifi or wired)
Digital HAT for Pi (recommended HifiBerry Digi+ PRO about 40 pounds)
Power supply (decent wall-wart at 5V/2.1A. Linear PSU can be added later)
Ethernet cable to home network
Digital interconnect to DAC (recommended Profigold Oxypure OXYA4801 about 25 pounds)
Micro SD card (min 8Gb)
Optional - Audioquest Jitterbug (about 40 pounds)
Case (cheap plastic or steel case from HifiBerry)
Assembly time 10 minutes (if you're handy) or 30 minutes (clumsy like me)
Can also be bought pre-assembled.
Download Volumio for free
Load onto SD card using a Disk Imager program
Pop card into Pi and power up (takes a minute or 2)
Using wired network find IP adress of Pi
Type that into web browser (PC or phone)
Get into startup menu for Pi.
Here is an article from someone who runs Apple Airplay into a Pi setup.
https://denbeke.be/blog/software/raspbe ... -streamer/
In a basis installation a Pi digital player will cost about 100 pounds and give superb SQ. With a bit of fiddling and add-ons you can improve performance, like the Jitterbug which filters out electronic noise or a Linear DC PSU.
Better HAT boards are available from Allo. The DigiOne (100 pounds) and DigiOne Signature (250 pounds, needs a second PSU) but the HifiBerry units are excellent.
Re: Getting the best from Streaming music
Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 9:28 am
by 2011stockdg
I have my CD collection ripped to wav format. Sounds much better than other formats I think.
Then I use radio paradise app and basic subscription to Spotify. If something really tickles my fancy I buy it on cd off ebay or amazon.
Re: Getting the best from Streaming music
Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 9:38 am
by savvypaul
I have a Sonore MicroRendu. Does the same job as a Pi...but is a good bit more expensive. I think it's a good bit better than the basic Pi, but the Pi power supplies can be upgraded and many report that to make a worthwhile difference.
I use Qobuz as it has an excellent classical catalogue.
I use Logitech rather than Roon as I find it faster and simpler (even on a higher-spec server)...and I'm not looking for lots of media content.
I use 'Orange Squeeze' android phone app as my controller.
I couldn't hear a difference between FLAC and WAV files when I tried them side by side. I hear differences in high-res (24 bit) files vs redbook (16 bit) files...but that may be down to remastering.
Re: Getting the best from Streaming music
Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:50 am
by Fretless
I do hear a difference between WAV and FLAC, and that is on my own CD rips. Enough for me to be re-ripping favourite discs.
FLAC is better than Apple Lossless which sounds a bit dull.
Re: Getting the best from Streaming music
Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 3:32 pm
by TheMarlin
Has to be wireless unfortunately, running an Ethernet cable into my listening room isn’t possible.
I run a mesh Wi-fi system, one master router and two slave disk
I could run another disk into the listening room, and cable to that, but not sure that would help.
Re: Getting the best from Streaming music
Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 4:26 pm
by CN211276
I cant hear a difference between WAV and FLAC. All things being equal 24 Bit is better than 16 Bit, but a good 16 Bit recording does beat a poor 24 Bit one. I have found that sample rate makes a big difference with a big jump from 192 kHz.
Re: Getting the best from Streaming music
Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 7:47 pm
by TheMarlin
Fretless wrote: ↑Tue Jun 04, 2019 8:45 am
Running things wirelessly introduces jitter and dropouts. Compressed music formats sound flat and lifeless.
I am a big fan of the Raspberry Pi and have several of those running here.
What you need:
Raspberry Pi 3B (about 40 pounds - can be used on Wifi or wired)
Digital HAT for Pi (recommended HifiBerry Digi+ PRO about 40 pounds)
Power supply (decent wall-wart at 5V/2.1A. Linear PSU can be added later)
Ethernet cable to home network
Digital interconnect to DAC (recommended Profigold Oxypure OXYA4801 about 25 pounds)
Micro SD card (min 8Gb)
Optional - Audioquest Jitterbug (about 40 pounds)
Case (cheap plastic or steel case from HifiBerry)
Assembly time 10 minutes (if you're handy) or 30 minutes (clumsy like me)
Can also be bought pre-assembled.
Download Volumio for free
Load onto SD card using a Disk Imager program
Pop card into Pi and power up (takes a minute or 2)
Using wired network find IP adress of Pi
Type that into web browser (PC or phone)
Get into startup menu for Pi.
Here is an article from someone who runs Apple Airplay into a Pi setup.
https://denbeke.be/blog/software/raspbe ... -streamer/
In a basis installation a Pi digital player will cost about 100 pounds and give superb SQ. With a bit of fiddling and add-ons you can improve performance, like the Jitterbug which filters out electronic noise or a Linear DC PSU.
Better HAT boards are available from Allo. The DigiOne (100 pounds) and DigiOne Signature (250 pounds, needs a second PSU) but the HifiBerry units are excellent.
Could you explain what this setup does exactly and how it works?
I’m a bit out of the loop on streaming options.
Cheers
Marlin
Re: Getting the best from Streaming music
Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 7:45 am
by Fretless
The Raspberry Pi is a complete computer in credit-card format. Processor, USB (4x), headphone socket, HDMI, Ethernet & Wifi. They are used for a wide variety of hobby implementations AND the Hifi community has discovered that they can be used to make high-quality, low-price streaming devices.
Hook a Pi into your network, load it up a dedicated Operating System (OS) that only processes audio signals and does nothing else (unlike your average PC which is constantly busy with all sorts of other tasks), Control is from any smartphone or PC, access your music files from USB storage or a network disk or a streaming service and away you go.
There are a whole collection of audio add-on boards (or HAT's) which can be fitted to the Pi to provide excellent analogue or digital output direct to an amplifier or DAC. These are especially produced for ultra-high-quality audio and will compete quite happily with esoteric audio units costing 10x as much.
It is also an educational process as you get to understand a bit better the whys and wherefores of digital audio processing. Upgrading and improving isn't an expensive process and the results are rewarding.
... and you have the satisfaction of being able to say 'I built that!'.
Edit: very interested in the Topping D30 - on my 'Wants' list for if I start to investigate DSD again.