Brexit

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

Yes it is, it has gone beyond that. Everywhere there is contention and division, it is normal. I am certain in my own mind that if the vote was taken again now we would stay in, but if there is no deal or a bad deal you watch attitudes harden to the anti EU. We are human beings this is governed by human nature, and all politics follows the same rules, everything has to be a compromise. BUT the point of a democracy is we freeze opinion at a moment in time - the election. It gave us Trump and it gave us Brexit, so we have to live with that or break the basis of democracy.

The really sick thing about this that has moved me from a stayer to a leaver is the attitude of the EU (not the European people) that they own us, and if we leave the family they are going to make sure it costs us, they talk of it in monetary terms but in reality it is emotional - how dare we stand up to them. Well stand up to them we will.

The battle will go on in the coalition that is the Conservative Party, and in the Labour Party and i........etc. It is not the point apart from to give you something to point at as you are being told to do by the EU orientated press. It is another pressure as I referred to in the last post. In the past it wasn't publicised, but government papers released show how declaration of war in both 1914 and 1939 were from an equally divided cabinet and government - as I say it is just human nature. The good thing is the Brits have a habit of mostly doing the right thing as looked back on in history. The SA Boer thing being an exception.

[Fretless]

Good to hear that the British press is only reporting one side of the situation.

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

Well give us the other side. I don't read newspapers, I scan a subject on-line.

[Fretless]

The reporting within the EU is that the UK negotiators are stalling and refusing to move on with talks. The complete lack of any definite direction or clear Brexit plan stems from a government in confused disarray, with Theresa May losing credibility and authority by the minute and the only alternative is that clown Boris.. Also absolutely no progress has been made from Whitehall regarding the status of EU nationals in the UK or the more than 600,000 British citizens resident in other EU lands.

The whole situation is really pissing me off as UK officials just sit on their arses, twiddling their thumbs and do bugger all to sort out this ridiculous mess that they have got themselves into.

Brexit, bloody stupidity !!!

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

It is a lot simpler than that, EU are trying to rip us off to make us pay for daring to want to leave, so we wont pay, BUT we will negotiate it, your lot just want paying, they wont talk so - feck 'em!!

Have you never negotiated a contract, EU citizens are quite safe here that is not what the argument is about. The EU are using it to try and tie us back into the EU Courts, saying EU citizens are subject to EU rights and laws even though they have moved here. WRONG they will be subject to UK courts which are bloody sight more sensible than the EU ones. See you are being lied to. Secondly the Irish border is settled in the statement that the UK will have no hard border, all it needs is the details and that is between Southern Ireland and US. I wouldn't be at all surprised if when the dust settles Ireland doesn't follow us to get greater USA connections, that is where their family lives, and in Canada, and in Australia, not in the EU. Brussels can feck off and mind its own business.

Yes the cabinet is like a playground bun fight at the moment, I would prefer that to a dictatorship, in the end a consensus will be formed, under who-ever, for once the leader could be anyone, it matter not, as without the cabinet in agreement it wont happen, which is unusual, but I see as a positive that in the end they will have to form a consensus.

So who is being told the truth. Well the truth is none of us are, you have to read between the lines.

[Classicrock]

The thing is the UK should call their bluff and give the EU a figure we won't go above. £30 billion would be OK payed back over a few years. To put it in context we throw away £17 billion worth of food a year. Call their bluff and if they still won't talk, walk away. Walking away now we at least would know what was happening for certain. For once I agree with Dyson who should be made to make his car in the Uk or face punitive taxes. If it doesn't worry his business likely Brexit will be only a minor blip for most. The CBI should be ignored as they are politically motivated slurpers who are gaining from cheap EU labour. Only really represent a small part of economic activity. Answer to Irish border is they leave as well.

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

The Brussels EU community is the enemy in this. I have no problem with the individual countries and Governments. Though the control pin / switch is Germany, if they say settle it then it will be settled, but is it in their interest. They have now won the second world war without fighting, because there was no USA or Russia to interfere with it, and with France as their poodle they now dominate Europe. BUT to be honest they deserve it, none of the others including us hold a candle to their ability to create wealth and prosperity, so it has happened because it happened not because of some political will to do it. It is a fait accompli that just has to be lived with.

[savvypaul]

UK most needs trade deal. EU most needs cash.

UK stalls on cash deal. EU stalls on trade deal. In no particular order. Why anyone surprised? Why anyone upset?

EU cannot work out how to do a free trade deal without making it easy for others to leave. UK cannot work out how to do a divorce deal without appearing to roll over.

It is classic 'game theory': http://www.politics.co.uk/comment-analy ... -of-brexit

A fascinating calculation / negotiation.

The jingoistic emotions are just noise. Newspapers tell us what we want to hear. The reality is in the numbers.

"Game On"

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

Over the money the EU wants a Dutch Auction where are we want a normal one. It is the seller who ask the first price not the payer. They say 100 Billion we say don't be daft here is 10 Billion, and reality comes somewhere in between. BUT there is another problem, we don't have to buy what is on offer, we just walk away and buy it from somewhere else, just a nuisance time delay. It is the EU that is in trouble over this and they see it. A lot of the EU Brussels lot want us to walk away, they don't really care about the money all they are interested in is their bit of power. We threaten that if others want to do what we are doing - their nightmare. It is the Governments especially Germany who will have to fork out our share if we walk away. EU knobs want to drive us away, EU Governments want us to get a deal.

[savvypaul]

Merkel must decide whether to prioritise the EU project or the German economy.

When faced with 'sharp' decisions Mutti usually comes up with a fudge.