HiFi Subjectivist ¦ Audio Forum ¦ NVA User Group

Strange title, why do I think it still needs to be said that we are a dishonest industry. The #1 priority is the sale, and then how much profit can they make. So how is that achieved with honesty, well it is not. It is achieved largely by bollocks and bullshit with the large companies the worst offenders. BUT even the small guys trying to break in seem to think they need to do it. Look at how hard it was to get some honesty into phono stage comparisons, look how it was avoided until it couldn't be ignored anymore, look at the years of challenges and teasing and insults until it happened, so now they try to ignore it and pretend it didn't happen.

So how is honesty achieved, well regarding NVA forums are now a problem as for certain AOS has banned any mention, PFM stops any positive comment and welcomes ones that damage, Wigwam, not sure, but I get the impression they will remove given any excuse. So even the forums are not honest.

How do we stop it, well I can't, apart from standing my ground and making any of my product available for any comparisons. It is up to you lot to comment to push for it or create the comparisons. In reality at least 50% of posts on forums should be about products and how they have been chosen, but what do we see in reality, a scan of the first page of AoS shows

10 posts for private sales
7 stupid space filling nonsense like the words threads
3 new members
3 trade bullshit
1 about hifi and comparisons
1 about music

This is constantly changing obviously but it is the regular split I see. I saw this yesterday and made a note. So out of 25 only one post for hifi discussion and one for music

In reality all we need is honest comparison and may the best product win for THAT INDIVIDUAL. Will it happen - only when you lot make it happen.

I think the problem is that the forums mentioned are no longer about hi-fi but an ego trip for their owners and followers. I am looking to see how a marketing man who knows and cares fuck all about hi-fi will manage to run a successful show (Harrogate). I'm sure with a few notable exceptions it's dealers and not manufacturers who are the problem. Inflated prices to encourage dealers to stock products with exception of most Rega and Richer Sounds' brands. I doubt the big brands are shaking in their boots about comparisons on HFS unlike certain small concerns, who obviously have little confidence in their own designs in spite of appearances.

How is honesty achieved?

It will take a larger scale version of NVA: No dealers, home trial, network of bake-offs, full value upgrade scheme.

NVA gets censored / banned because it shows up what is wrong with the status quo, but it is small scale (not a criticism) and therefore doesn't materially endanger the status quo.

When a large scale NVA happens, navel gazing and willy waving forums will be exposed for what they are and the marketing departments will have been sidestepped.

If I'm being honest about hi-fi, given that honesty is in the title of this thread; unfortunately from my own experience and from years of using my ears, I find most hi-fi, very unpleasant to listen to - simple as that.

The fact of the matter seems to be that the larger the company and the more marketing is added to its product promotion, the more unpleasant the sound on the ground.

Speakers are the worst offenders. Purely and simply, I can't stand to be in the same room as most of the bloody things; horrible, nasty ear piercing affronts to music. The interesting thing is that the more unpleasant they sound, the more the punters will sit entranced and rapt with attention in front of them.

Don't know why I put myself through it at bake-offs other than they are a chance to have a chin wag and a few drinks with your mates.

Let's face it. Hi fi as it is now, is either about as exciting as watching paint dry, or a hideous aural assault.

That honest enough.

Most mainstream speakers are designed for their looks first, and then the ability to make an attention grabbing 'impression' should they be the subject of a dealer dem.

Hence, the proliferation of blingy, spitty, narrow floorstanders.

If the only other 'hifi' you've heard is in your car, and the other half likes the look of them...job done.

Especially if called Linn and or Naim. In the days I used to go to shows, now happily those days are over, there has never been an occasion I haven't walked out of their rooms shaking my head. Then when hearing their customers systems and trying be polite, I gave that up years ago, now I just tell it as I hear it.

Can you imagine being in a dealer or a home and having a bloody noise stuck 6 inches in front of your nostrils and the others being in raptures, foot tapping and all. All that twitched and taps for me was my nose in having that noise just in front of it. Then being told a proper real soundstage that included the room is wrong.

Indeed!

With these big bake-offs such as Owston or even at David's place, which is quite a large room, it is only whacking great open baffles that have a hope in hell of making anything resembling music.

Yet people who should know better will have no hesitation in passing withering judgement on the smaller systems, if it suits their agendas.

I have one answer to that:


Here's an interesting comment:
"If I want some innoffensive background music whilst I'm working I'll listen to your speakers, If I want to listen seriously and lose myself in the music, I certainly wouldn't be wanting to listen to any sort of omni like yours or the cubes"

One could ask - why bother taking gear that you know (in all probability) won't be suited to the room ?

Dr Bunsen Honeydew wrote: ↑Sat Oct 14, 2017 3:45 pm Especially if called Linn and or Naim. In the days I used to go to shows, now happily those days are over, there has never been an occasion I haven't walked out of their rooms shaking my head. Then when hearing their customers systems and trying be polite, I gave that up years ago, now I just tell it as I hear it.

Can you imagine being in a dealer or a home and having a bloody noise stuck 6 inches in front of your nostrils and the others being in raptures, foot tapping and all. All that twitched and taps for me was my nose in having that noise just in front of it. Then being told a proper real soundstage that included the room is wrong.

If you hadn't heard, or couldn't get to hear anything else...and if the mags and dealers told you it was 'the only true way'...then most people bought it, including me.

Honesty is to admit that you were hoodwinked and be prepared to learn from scratch. Not easy when you have spent large sums.

For those who prefer to be in denial, there is the likes of the Naim Owners Forum and the Harbeth User Group.

The same battles against phoney marketing and cynical business practices are just as relevant now.

hillsanddalesrover wrote: ↑Sat Oct 14, 2017 4:18 pm One could ask - why bother taking gear that you know (in all probability) won't be suited to the room ?

As I read it it, Steve's criticism was not of the room...the criticism was of those who expect a small driver to fill a room that is 4 times the size of the average domestic living room and then slag the speaker off because it doesn't do that job.

I would question the agenda of those who would do that...