HiFi Subjectivist ¦ Audio Forum ¦ NVA User Group

My A/V system currently consists of: a Denon blu ray player, a Humax Freesat PVR, Creek CAS4040 (2 channel integrated) and EV Sentry III speakers.

I have a pair of Linn Saras and Heybrook HB1's lying around plus a couple of spare power amps.

I'm happy to admit that I don't know much about A/V systems.

I think what I'm looking for is a pre-amp / processor that can do 4.0 or 5.0 or 7.0?
Going for a subwoofer seems a bit daft when the Sentries have 15" drivers.

I'm looking for something cheap but good 2nd hand. Ideally less than £200.

Any recommendations? Or any recommendations on where I should go for advice and guidance on this?

Just looked on ebay and there's a couple of Rotel's or I guess its another Japanese manufacturer. You could always check out Richer Sounds.

Denon, Yamaha and Rotel all make and have made good AV receivers. seriously, much as I have fondness for the Creek 4040, it's not up to the system you have and I honestly believe a once mid price AV receiver would easily see it off. we sold Denon and the sub £1000 AV receivers were fine. Yamaha have an amazing research dept apparently and I think they'll be ok as well. We had one Rotel AV receiver that retailed just over a grand I remember and the sound was excellent in a musical sense, but I forget the model and it wasn't as popular as the Denon's we sold, which all but sold themselves and never sounded awful as I remember - famous last words, but I don't think I'm fully in error saying this.

One thing I would suggest, although I really don't know the capabilities of your speakers, is when you've got everything set up then audition a subwoofer if you can just to be certain it wouldn't make any difference. The problem most people have is treating an AV setup differently than their hifi setup. Blu-rays are produced with high quality sound, usually with a sub in mind. Next, if you do go the 5.1 route then a good centre speaker is a must, that's where most of your main spoken dialogue will (appear to) be coming from. What it really does is "anchor" the dialogue to the screen. Having said all of that, you can, of course, use a 5.1 Blu-ray with a 2.0 setup. A decent AV amp should let you squirt the sound wherever you need it, and also have a bass management system to use if you haven't got a sub. My view is though, if it was designed to work optimally on a 5.1 or a 7.1 setup than that's how many speakers I want, so I can hear it as the director and the sound engineer/producer intended as opposed to how I think it might sound.

In a small room, I've got a pair of JPW mini monitors as my "main" pair, a Mission 77c centre, Eltax HT-2 "Bipolar" speakers as rears and a Wharfedale WA-S8 Subwoofer. The amp is a venerable (in hi-fi years) Yamaha RX-V373 based on Burr Brown technology and the BDP is an LG BP620 which is 3D capable. Like you, I've got the ubiquitous Humax Freesat PVR. It was put together on a budget and I think I'd have trouble topping it for what I've paid even now.

One last thing, for what you're willing to spend I'd be perhaps looking at new amps, not second hand. Maybe something like this... That one can handle 4K (it doesn't hurt to be 'future proofed') and 3D Blu-rays and weighs in at around £199.00.

dq uses doc modded wharfedale diamond 10.3s and a denon amp . surround sound pahh , just a gimmick.

good amp and speakers is all you need . It anchors the speech centrally and creates a decent stereo sound stage . Also you can use it to watch tv , which as stereo out only .

Additionally as their are 6 in our house watching on two settee's , it doesn't favour a postion .

All I use for tv is my 2 channel hifi but then again I don't watch all the latest movies, which I guess are made for surround sound. If you watch movies I think I would go along with Mr Slinger's recommendation, even though over your £200 budget.

I've not used TV sound for a long time. I have Kans and an old Nytech for TV sound. Then I got a 5.1 system (ATC SCM7s and matching centre speaker and subwoofer). The centre speaker makes a difference on dialogue - but that would really depend on how focussed a stereo system was. Subwoofer is for special effects mostly. I found DTS sounded more natural than Dolby on my Kenwood 5.1 AV receiver. But all that was pre-nva. I'm now thinking of using the Cubettes for TV.

Richer Sounds only seem to stock AV receivers, not processors.

Am I right in thinking that most AV system sub-woofers are crappy little 10" drivers in small cabinets? Do they actually go flat down to 20 hz? If they do, they must apply a hell of a lot of equalisation?

The Creek 4040 is the worst sounding amplifier I've ever bought (forgiveable for an ultra budget amp). But it was still good enough, in conjunction with my Sentries, to see off a Hegel H360 with ATC 11's and AVI DM10's at September's bake-off. So, on that basis the Creek's staying.

I've got a JBL 15" driver in a custom cab I could try as a dedicated sub-woofer. Would I need to equalise it to get it flat down to 20hz? Or would flat down to 35 to 40 hz be good enough for gimmicky Hollywood sound effects? The Sentry III's are flat down to 40hz.


Room size is approx 24' by 18'.

Would a Linn Sara be good enough for the central speaker? I know it's a mediocre hi-fi speaker and not up to the standard of the Sentries, but it's probably better than a lot of the dedicated centre speakers that are sold new today.

Would this be worth buying:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Denon-DN-A710 ... SwLnBX9QIB

The processors rather than receivers are fairly rare things - mostly really expensive. (e.g. the McClaren stuff).

What Terry said.

Re the Denon, it's line-level out only, so you'd need to power each pair of speakers, plus the sub seperately.

A 10" sub will cover 99% of things your Blu-ray etc. can throw at it. I don't have the capability to measure the depth of LF from mine, which has a 'crappy' little 8" speaker.
I'd also say that the sound effects are not all 'gimicky.' Most are there for a purpose and (should) integrate with the rest of the soundtrack seamlessly. Having said that, there are times when I think to myself "bloody Hell, the sub's working overtime" but only in a good way.

You would almost certainly need to eq the JBL as these days it's not only the LF that is sent to the sub out on AV amps/receivers whereas at one time I believe it was. That's why I prefer a powered sub with it's own volume and eq on the back panel.

Never heard a Sara so can't comment. There's a Mission 77c like mine going for £49.99 on eBay at the moment, which is a very good deal.