HiFi Subjectivist ¦ Audio Forum ¦ NVA User Group

Chunk McDaniel wrote: ↑Sat Dec 29, 2018 7:23 pm I find most reviews involving DAC's very rarely mention music or sound quality these days it's all graphs and measurements. Hifi especially involving streaming and any form of computer only seem to care about specs and fancy charts. Do these people listen to music or just test tones. Unbelievable!

I like a good test tone. I think 22 Hz is my favorite. I would probably really enjoy anything above 12KHz but unfortunately I can’t hear them.
The harmonics test tones are cool as well; well those I can hear are. I seem to have lost 5th and 3rd.
Not to worry, I can always look at the graphs and pretend.

That’s the really interesting thing about music, it’s a subjective thing.
Of course, that rather limits the comments one can make about sound quality without delving into all that pseudo reviewers bollocks where they wax lyrical about something only they may be able to hear.

Dr Bunsen Honeydew wrote: ↑Sat Dec 29, 2018 1:36 pm
Off topic here but I feel the need for a new year rant.

Oooo, i love a good rant.

Welder - NO!!! that is just more marketing BULLSHIT, you don't need to pretend to be a hi-fi reviewer, all you need to do is talk about the music, how it changes, understanding more about the music and the musicians - it is communication, REALITY, not bollocks pretend hi-fi speak just to confuse people and pretend you know something.

Leave that for the slurpers, pretend gurus, and the forum eeeediots. We ALL know when music is better even if it is difficult to describe it.

The only people who don't understand music are those who manically pursue more hi-fi at the expense of the music.. They need to stop and turn around.

Dr Bunsen Honeydew wrote: ↑Sat Dec 29, 2018 7:47 pm Welder - NO!!! that is just more marketing BULLSHIT, you don't need to pretend to be a hi-fi reviewer, all you need to do is talk about the music, how it changes, understanding more about the music and the musicians - it is communication, REALITY, no bollocks pretend hi-fi speak just to confuse people and pretend you know something.

Leave that for the slurpers, pretend gurus, and the forum eeeediots. We ALL know when music is better even if it is difficult to describe it.

The only people who don't understand music are those who manically pursue more hi-fi at the expense of the music.. They need to stop and turn around.

Richard....YES. Equipment reviews centered around music/sound quality are completely fucking pointless.
I’ve read that many over the years and later even heard some of the equipment reviewed. The equipment didn’t sound anything like the reviewers impression to me. Hi Fi reviews are sales pitches in general written by hack journalists who couldn’t mange to follow a proer news story because they might have to leave the office.
Come on! you know I’m right given your experience in and of the trade.
I read some of the reviews on forums such as yours of pieces of equipment and where they have compared to a previously owned product and given it a better or worse rating I might pay some attention.
If you want to know how something sounds you have to listen to it, preferably with music you are familiar with and in the space you play your music in; anything less is a complete waste of time. It’s one of the reason you have your direct sell and loan scheme, because you know this to be true.
So, one may as well just concentrate on the specs in a review.

Well you have confused me.
It seems you either misunderstand deliberately or cannot see what I am talking about. Hi-fi terminology reviews are just as much nonsense and confusion as technical reviews, neither tell anything of any importance to the end user. The end user listens to music, he judges things by music unless he has been deflected by the hi-fi bollocks, be it subjective OR objective, they are both bollocks. The only thing that is important is your music and how YOU perceive it. That is how you should judge.

Your post is completely confusing and confused, parts say yes the above parts say no. We have never asked for any other review here than listening to music and giving comparisons, have you actually read the reviews, your description above says you haven't or you are confusing us with others.

Can anyone make any sense of this post for me and what it is saying.

Seems fairly straightforward . You can only decide on eqipment if you personally listen to it in your own home. This means reviews , even those on h/s , cant really tell you anything.

Accordingly you may as well decide what to audition on specs.

A valid if somewhat partial view.

The conversation started with this.

“I find most reviews involving DAC's very rarely mention music or sound quality these days it's all graphs and measurements. Hifi especially involving streaming and any form of computer only seem to care about specs and fancy charts. Do these people listen to music or just test tones. Unbelievable!”

Given you don’t make Dacs, this concerns reviews in the Hi Fi media I think its safe to assume.
My responses were to the above post initially and that is the context in which any subsequent post were made I’ve assumed including yours.

OK who agrees with that "Accordingly you may as well decide what to audition on specs." and that is in complete conflict to the statement that people should judge INDIVIDUALLY and give INDIVIDUAL opinion based on music - so sorry still completely confused.

This seems like opposites to me. What has music got to do with specs.

So explain to me DQ how that disjointed circle can be squared as you seem to agree with it.

Welder wrote: ↑Sat Dec 29, 2018 9:32 pm The conversation started with this.

“I find most reviews involving DAC's very rarely mention music or sound quality these days it's all graphs and measurements. Hifi especially involving streaming and any form of computer only seem to care about specs and fancy charts. Do these people listen to music or just test tones. Unbelievable!”

Given you don’t make Dacs, this concerns reviews in the Hi Fi media I think its safe to assume.
My responses were to the above post initially and that is the context in which any subsequent post were made I’ve assumed including yours.

#1 I didn't write that post, Chunky did. It still makes no sense, what is it you wish to say.

One moment you say specs are the answer

One moment you say music is the answer

One moment you say hi-fi language reviews are not the answer.

As I say how do you square that circle, what are you telling us. I would like to know if I agree or disagree with you as the argument is confused.

BTW I have made a NVA Dac, and sold it nearly 30 years ago. It was rather good for the time, it was in co-operation with QED.

It’s not about what you wrote Richard, it’s about what Chunky wrote.
I haven’t written one should decide on specs either. I’ve suggested that Hi Fi reviewers; those that Chunky is complaining about are imo better off sticking to writing about specs than they are trying to describe how some piece of music sounds through whatever system they may be playing it through.