Hi-Fi Companies that lose themselves

[CycleCoach]

Presumptions shouldn't be made. It is a problem with this industry that designers and those that pretend to be designers (example JulianV and IvorT) have been set up as minor rock starts and almost worshipped in some quarters. Quite obviously it is just daft bullshit per usual.Hi-Fi is very simple technology NO ONE deserves to be treated that way, they need to be doubted and questioned and challenged as to their real knowledge, and I am afraid Peter Comeau was one of those, but far from the worst.

If he was so clever he wouldn't have made such a balls up of it.

Audio designers are ordinary people doing an ordinary job. The problem is some of them only real skill is self promotion.

In this interview about Wherfedale's latest Dovedales, Peter Comeau speaks some sense, such as having a sandwiched cabinet construction.
I would question his claim that he's getting "extremely realistic bass" from a low efficiency 10" driver in a ported cabinet.
I'm also not convinced by the use of an iron cored inductor for the bass crossover instead of air cored.
And then there's MDF for the cabinets. And the stuffing inside the cabinets.

The Dovedales just seem to be another "me too" modern ported low efficiency design. OK wider bodied and bigger woofered than most, but nothing particularly special about them at all.

[CycleCoach]

Nice to see larger woofer and cabinet, but I would say that the main driver (pun intended) for the 'new' Dovedales (and the new Mission 770s) is to meet the demand for vintage inspired products.

[CycleCoach]

Nice to see larger woofer and cabinet, but I would say that the main driver (pun intended) for the 'new' Dovedales (and the new Mission 770s) is to meet the demand for vintage inspired products.

Vintage inspired, but not that inspired.
10" woofers in a ported cab vs 12" in acoustic suspension cab.
MDF cabinets vs ? in originals.
Kevlar woofer vs paper woofer
Kevlar squawker vs paper squawker

The vintage inspired appears to be more of a marketing thing than an engineering principles thing.

[CycleCoach]

Nice to see larger woofer and cabinet, but I would say that the main driver (pun intended) for the 'new' Dovedales (and the new Mission 770s) is to meet the demand for vintage inspired products.

Vintage inspired, but not that inspired.
10" woofers in a ported cab vs 12" in acoustic suspension cab.
MDF cabinets vs ? in originals.
Kevlar woofer vs paper woofer
Kevlar squawker vs paper squawker

The vintage inspired appears to be more of a marketing thing than an engineering principles thing.

Marketing and cost. Though, nothing wrong with cheaper components if they are used skillfully.

I imagine that the originals are chipboard. We have a pair at Mark's, waiting to be doc modded. Hopefully, in time for the WAM show.

[Latteman]

I've had a little chat with Terry, the host of that youtube interview with Peter Comeau
I think that this interchange illustrates very well the point that Richard made about hi-fi designers being set up as minor rock stars and almost worshipped in some quarters. With Peter Comeau being an example of one of those that should be doubted, questioned and challenged.

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Lin T
Peter Comeau is talking nonsense about getting extremely realistic bass from a 10" driver in a ported cabinet. Extremely realistic compared to 6" drivers in a ported box maybe.
Extremely realistic compared to a good 18" in a large sealed cabinet? I'd like to put that to the test.

Pursuit Perfect System
Its realistic for realistic people Lindsay - 18 inch drivers in huge cabs is not realistic for 99.99%

Lin T
 @Pursuit Perfect System  Come on Terry! You're just playing with words. You know what Peter intended with his "extremely realistic bass" comment. It's to be expected for him to go into marketing mode for an interview like this. And it's fair comment from me to pull him up on his marketing hyperbole.
The history of hi-fi in the UK is littered with industry figures hyping their products to high heaven. I respect people more when they give a balanced and accurate description of products they are involved with.

It would be interesting to compare a fully functional pair of original 1960's Dovedales to the 2023 version. With the original versions having a reasonable chance of producing better bass than the modern ones. Due to the physics and engineering principles of a 12" paper woofer in an acoustic suspension cabinet vs 10" kevlar woofer in a ported box.
It would also be interesting to compare the retail price, adjusted for inflation, of the originals to the modern.

Pursuit Perfect System
The originals relied on boundary gain, i.e they had to be placed on the floor to produce enough bass extension as Peter explained . Sealed cabinet have falling bass below 100hz that is physics, nothing will change that.

I am not playing with words Lindsay just being realistic. Peter says in the video a 10 inch is not a big driver in old terms but in modern terms it is. Lets not overlook full output capability at 25hz being something worthy of note for a medium sized speaker really.

Lin T
@Pursuit Perfect System  It is complete nonsense to say that sealed cabinets have falling response below 100 hz because it all depends on the woofers used! With larger woofers tending to have more bass extension than smaller woofers.
I have sealed cabinet speakers that are flat down to 20hz.
I have other sealed cabinet speakers that use twin 12" woofers that are flat to 40hz.

There was an element of marketing speak in Peter talking down sealed cabinet speakers and talking up what his company are selling now.

If the 2023 Dovedales have full output at 25hz, most of the sound will be coming from the ports and not the 10" woofer and therefore good transient response will have gone out the window. Bass quantity is pointless without bass quality.

Modern speakers, as a genre have worse bass than cherry picked speakers from the 1960's. Because of the move from large woofers in sealed cabs to smaller woofers in ported cabs.
Mediocre quality bass is forgiveable in speakers retailing at under £1000. In speakers that cost £5000 and are marketed as having "extremely realistic bass" it's less forgivable.

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Having said all that, I'd rather listen to Peter Comeau speakers than Alan Shaw's, any day of the week.

[Daniel Quinn]

I took up DIY because doc mods to a Peter Comeau designed wharfedale speaker made it unquestionably better .

As for the new dovedales , the fact that they are a 10 inch ported design proves that Peter will say anything to sell product . I wonder what he has at home ?

[Daniel Quinn]

In most industries ideas and concepts are superceded and confined to history .

In hifi the are rehashed for profit because in hifi people talk shite .

[Wonfor14]

I am pleased to see SavvyPaul remarks, as they said at Plessey S.P.O.
If the right component cheap or otherwise is designed to run well within it S.O.A. and not pushed to atomic destruction or screwed up by the money men, or greedy B------Ds that steel your idea.
Then the design is right, OK a little maths and a lot of experience is needed but money for good designs should not be over charged.
Design and PCB layout are extremely important, but imagination is a big contribution not many so called designer have that.

To sum up, Design Skills maths etc, imagination, original thoughts , love of the work not just a job and learn/study more. And have loads of fun making smoke, I do.