Creek

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

A message for Mr Dunn
ColinColin 2:33AM
Member
Dunn, get you facts right please.

Oh why I am posting here because you and your site will not allow me to reply on your wonderful site.

I have never been bust all the companies I have started were sold in a whole or in part.

So get it right.
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Well we (I) have nicely wound braindead up, it seems he is no longer braindead but is Colin. You remember the man, the one who claims to have patent applications in and refuses to give the patent application number - ILLEGALLY!!!!!

So let us look at his points. Selling the company is euphemism for going bust in many cases including these ones. You only sell a company if someone (normally corporate) is willing to give you good money, or you have to sell it because you have no more money i.e. gone bust. It is very easy to see which situation was involved here. I make my point again but this time adding a word. Every 80's and 90's company braindead was involved with as owner or part owner went bust *EFFECTIVELY*, and in most case after that actually. Secondly I have not stopped him joining Subjectivist, but I doubt he would last long if he did. It would be good to see him answer design questions about his cable or why he illegally claims patents, or at a more simple level how he has the gall to charge the prices he does and rip everyone off, yet give cable to his friends at Chews to shill across the forums (not to mention amplifiers).

This could equally be in the Chews thread as that is where this post is from but it can just as easily be here.

[jammy395]

Never met the patent dodging rip off merchant, but i dont think i would like him.
Wish he would join in the fun here - Wont hold me breath....

[_D_S_J_R_]

The Creek 4040 and 4140 were big sellers for us and we welcomed it as the first amp at that price to finally compete with and eventually better, the NAD 3020, which was running out of steam by this time after a couple of years. The A&R A60 was another great old classic, but price was becoming against it sadly and the much cheaper Alpha amp wasn't powerful enough to offer competition (UK build and expensive mains transformers saw to that I suspect).

Creek being all but sold saw us leaving it aside and anyway, our Naimie sales director had got in with the Cyrus crowd and the free skiing holidays they spivved on dealer management who met the sales quota in the mid 80's. Need I say more?

Linn weren't making amps at this point (not until 1985) and the Nait mk1 was nearly double the price of a Creek 4040. Naim saw the change to Nait 2 as another huge chance to increase the price way over the real increase in manufacturing.

Actually Doc, do you remember the humungous UK price hikes of already expensive Linn and Naim stuff in the mid 80's, supposedly to keep price parity with Europe. I think both lost a little in the market at this time and the introduction of the rather flawed Linn pre and power amps (so much potential had they not tried to be so clever with them) made it worse I felt...

[Andrew]

With the greatest of respect, i feel like he is missing the point of the thread's direction. The companies listed appear to have ceased building amps largely because they were unfairly discriminated against, maligned and shut out of the market, irrespective of their products merits.

Many of the makers named produced some real gems, yet they were never given a fair shout. I can understand anyone not wanting to have the label of going bust and I can appreciate that part. It would've been good to see some recognition of the main point of the posts though, which actually empathises with talented designers whose products were shut out.

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

+1 Andrew.

You should know ego is more important than reality.

[RIAT]

It is not the same company http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creek_Audio

But if wikipedia is to be believed then the reason it was sold the first time was to sales outstripping production - sounds like they were doing well! the second sale was thanks to losses as a result of production issues and high costs as a result of poor management. noting to do with linn, naim or dealers.

[_D_S_J_R_]

Not sure about these lower cost items though Andrew. Products like the Incatech and Onix were enthusiastically stocked and sold by Naim people I remember. Maybe they cost too much to make for their retail prices? Nytech was good once the early reliability issues in the receiver were tamed. The integrateds started off ok, but once name-changed to ION, the sonics went right off in my experience - very hard and harsh. Just my views obviously...

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

Actually Doc, do you remember the humungous UK price hikes of already expensive Linn and Naim stuff in the mid 80's, supposedly to keep price parity with Europe. I think both lost a little in the market at this time and the introduction of the rather flawed Linn pre and power amps (so much potential had they not tried to be so clever with them) made it worse I felt...

I had forgotten about that, and naively saw it as a chance to get into some more dealers, but it was about then that Linn started their illegal dealer contracts (against the sale of goods act) which others like Mission joined in with later when they saw Linn getting away with it. I think this largely led to the split with Naim because Julien V didn't like this philosophically, and Linn then designing their own amps.

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

It is not the same company http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creek_Audio

But if wikipedia is to be believed then the reason it was sold the first time was to sales outstripping production - sounds like they were doing well! the second sale was thanks to losses as a result of production issues and high costs as a result of poor management. noting to do with linn, naim or dealers.

Bullshit I am afraid, it had effectively gone bust. No company owner sells a company so that others can expand it, they get partners or investment or loans if they need capital for the expansion.

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

Not sure about these lower cost items though Andrew. Products like the Incatech and Onix were enthusiastically stocked and sold by Naim people I remember. Maybe they cost too much to make for their retail prices? Nytech was good once the early reliability issues in the receiver were tamed. The integrateds started off ok, but once name-changed to ION, the sonics went right off in my experience - very hard and harsh. Just my views obviously...

You were never owner or buyer Dave. They were told in no uncertain terms if they didn't support Linn or hit their targets they would lose the agency, only products that did not compete at price points were allowed to sell.

The Linn reps were the villains in this as trained by Ivor. You haven't hit your target, or we want you to go to the next level, now lets look at it, why do you sell this, do you think it is better than Linn, no (you dare not say yes) then stop selling it and sell more Linn