HiFi Subjectivist ¦ Audio Forum ¦ NVA User Group

It is out and out exploitation of a disturbed minority

£21,000 for the latest LP12 Klimax, and not available 2nd hand yet.

There could not be a more appropriate day for a discussion on the LP12. The Doc must be having a chuckle from above.

They have been purveying for nearly fifty years and Ivor's response to a letter I had published in a 1980 issue of Popular HiFi is entertaining reading.










In response to the

1. Development of the LP12 goes back approx ten years.
The development of the Ariston goes back to this time and it was based on the Thoerns which was based on the A&R.

2. Motivation to produce the best hifi for ourselves.

3. Not efficient marketing people or dedicated professionals.

4. With very few exceptions no other British manufacturer has been in business for as long as Linn (this is 1980).

5. Linn have not produced a cheaper turntable as there are no compromises at the start.
They soon did.

6. Impossible to make a high quality product in large volumes.
Not supported by sales figures.

7. If a better sounding machine became available we would buy it.
There were and are many better sounding cheaper TTs.

8. "We contend that the Linn is the cheapest turntable on the market. We feel it offers the best value...

9. Forward and backward compatibility.
Extortionate upgrade path.

10. Raw material costs exceed those of competitors.
Really?

11. Manufacture mechanical components ourselves.
Ivor's dad, owner of Castle Engineering, did for Ariston.

12. The public is better served by more competitive products.
Linn restricted competition and were reported to Trading Standards.

This constant “our upgrade makes it the best ever” implies that they didn’t do a good job in the first place. If we believe this then hifi from years ago must be very poor.

Listen to something “old” and then wonder why it isn’t crap.

Stemcor1990 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 05, 2021 1:34 pm This constant “our upgrade makes it the best ever” implies that they didn’t do a good job in the first place. If we believe this then hifi from years ago must be very poor.

Listen to something “old” and then wonder why it isn’t crap.

And with such a tiny needle the bubble of this type of hifi marketing is burst.

CN211276 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 05, 2021 12:14 pm There could not be a more appropriate day for a discussion on the LP12. The Doc must be having a chuckle from above.

They have been purveying for nearly fifty years and Ivor's response to a letter I had published in a 1980 issue of Popular HiFi is entertaining reading.










In response to the

1. Development of the LP12 goes back approx ten years.
The development of the Ariston goes back to this time and it was based on the Thoerns which was based on the A&R.

2. Motivation to produce the best hifi for ourselves.

3. Not efficient marketing people or dedicated professionals.

4. With very few exceptions no other British manufacturer has been in business for as long as Linn (this is 1980).

5. Linn have not produced a cheaper turntable as there are no compromises at the start.
They soon did.

6. Impossible to make a high quality product in large volumes.
Not supported by sales figures.

7. If a better sounding machine became available we would buy it.
There were and are many better sounding cheaper TTs.

8. "We contend that the Linn is the cheapest turntable on the market. We feel it offers the best value...

9. Forward and backward compatibility.
Extortionate upgrade path.

10. Raw material costs exceed those of competitors.
Really?

11. Manufacture mechanical components ourselves.
Ivor's dad, owner of Castle Engineering, did for Ariston.

12. The public is better served by more competitive products.
Linn restricted competition and were reported to Trading Standards.

From 1982 to 2002 I'd have been on Ivor's side and would have seen you as some sour, negative, agenda led, bitter nutter.
Such is the power of the marketing techniques used by him. The strongest of which was glowing testimonials from the UK hi-fi press.

From 2008 onwards, I'd see you as the reasonable person, speaking the truth. And Ivor as a bullshitting marketing man - someone that I'd trust - when it came to hi-fi - as far as I could throw him.

Linn's popularity is very much a UK-based phenomenon. Looking on 2nd-hand sites here in Holland there is very little Linn gear, and then extortionately priced, compared to a large quantity of sensible Rega, Pro-ject or Technics TT offers.

Even back in the 80's, the aggressive hype of the Linn/Naim axis made me very suspicious of their products. When I heard the shrill, grainy and uninvolving sound they produced, I started looking elsewhere for quality audio equipment.

Lindsayt wrote: ↑Fri Nov 05, 2021 2:18 pm
From 1982 to 2002 I'd have been on Ivor's side and would have seen you as some sour, negative, agenda led, bitter nutter.

This is the reaction I got on PFM with the addition of the word deaf, before I was banned.

It is a shame the documents I posted did not come out better. A major point I was making was the constant recommendation of the LP12 (then £340) with the NAD 3020 (£89) and (Wharfdale Sheltons (£60). The reviewers maintained that this system would out perform any other with another turntable, no matter what the cost of amp and speakers. I was suspicious and suggested the reviewers were on the Linn payroll. This had Ivor tearing his hair out and I dont think so much hot air has come out of Glasgow until this week.

I put my suspicions to the test in 1983 when I demoed the LP12 with NAD 3020 through budget speakers, Boston I think, against a Rega Planar 3 (£130) in the same system. The Rega arm was fitted to the LP12 with the same cartridge. I was not alone at the demo and the concensus was that the LP12 was in no way superior. The salesman was perplexed and cast aspersions on the albums I brought from Pink Floyd, Rainbow and David Coverdale. Varied and not plinkety plonk. Another explanation branded is that the LP12 was not set up properly. But who wants a deck that goes out of tune when ever a fly farts. I concluded, wrongly, that all high end hifi was a waste of money and lost interest for thirty years.

Linn are continuing to fleece the deminishing brainwashed sheep with "upgrades", but since Ivor's sprog took over and saved them from bankrupcy following his retirement, the focus has been on a all in one streaming box matching the price of the LP12. I'm sure my multi component streaming source would blow the Klimax away at a fraction of the cost. Unless it was through Linn amps and speakers, masking the difference, costing mega bucks more than my NVA kit.

CN211276 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 05, 2021 6:20 pm

Lindsayt wrote: ↑Fri Nov 05, 2021 2:18 pm
From 1982 to 2002 I'd have been on Ivor's side and would have seen you as some sour, negative, agenda led, bitter nutter.

This is the reaction I got on PFM with the addition of the word deaf, before I was banned.

I suppose I was lucky. Last time I posted on there I got gagged instead of banned. With posts of mine deleted with no explanation.
I've stayed off ever since.

There's a few members on pfm that I like and that I enjoyed interacting with. Some of them purely via forum interaction. And some of them, including TonyL in real life. I like Tony on a personal level and am happy that his forum still seems to be thriving.

I was banned after I said I found HFS good source of advice. I have rejoined with a different address but have not posted.