from rubber band to direct drive

[tomblackford]

As an impartial observer, I'm pretty sure that neither 'school of thought' is completely without merit, and both should be at least treated with a smidgen of respect, just as an Jap DD owner would presumably expect not to be completely vilified or personally insulted if they put their case on a Linn forum.

At the moment I'm just seeing a clash of two different dogmas (and, as mentioned above, axe-grinding). Given what I understand of the emotive history some of that is probably undetstandable from those who have been inside the industry for many years but I'm not sure of the value of a lot of the other 'commentary', and to somebody like me, the PFM equivalent topic (link posted above) is lot more interesting and informative.

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

It is NOTHING to do with quality of TT in this case, people are welcome to their choices. If Jayman had chosen the Linn, I would have called him daft IMO, and thought privately he must be deaf. You would not have seen a post from me saying I was an expert of 30 years with DD turntables and telling him why he is wrong from what I see on a picture. Do you know why! because it is an insult to the mans intelligence, and DQ saw it exactly the same way. The problem is Dave's ATTITUDE not his opinion. It is still acceptable to post like that about Linn in some places on the forums because of the brainwash and bullshit that STILL exists around it, folk law and marketing it is time it ended.

On a flat playing field I might be able to assess the place the Linn really occupies in the realm of things but I can assure you no matter what it wont be very high, but because of the damage they have caused to the industry my brain cant rate it higher at the moment than a Mattel toy turntable.

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

I want to re-inforce so there is no misunderstanding. First reaction was by DQ to the shear effrontery and insult to Jayman from Dave's post. I followed it up in agreement, it has nothing to do with the turntables or belt v DD.

[_D_S_J_R_]

I want to re-inforce so there is no misunderstanding. First reaction was by DQ to the shear effrontery and insult to Jayman from Dave's post. I followed it up in agreement, it has nothing to do with the turntables or belt v DD.

What a load of CRAP Doc. I'd already discussed this with Jamie by PM, so nothing new as far as he's concerned, but he started this thread with in my view, a slightly skewed viewpoint.

Yes, I can see, as can anyone else, when a Linn felt mat is distorted and therefore shrunken = they only do this if subject to excess moisture and it can take a few years for this to happen, with sonically degrading results. Yes, a mid 80's example needs to be done up tight, and this means top plate dimples. The pics as posted on AOS showed it wasn't tight and I explained all this to Jamie privately. I'm going to go far enough to say that in the 80's, I don't think there were many dealers outside of London and home counties who really knew what to do with this thing and if that's because of a serious design shortcoming, then so be it. The Porsche 911 has suffered similarly for decades and the company has probably made a fortune out of it.

Why did I bring it up at all? because it's my opinion based on first hand personal experience and it was everybody slagging the thing off. I explained in my PM that the Pioneer would almost certainly have bettered it in any case, but that I *know* I could have tidied the Sondek sound up a little further - no self-opinion there, just experience. Who knows how loose the Ittok's fixing screws were either, as tightening these was also part of the servicing and no new Linn dealer would know as late Ittoks and all subsequent Linn arms are glued together. At the time, it WAS important and not at all bullshit or brainwash, although as I've said countless times, my discovery of the Spacedeck made all the Linn set-up procedure rather pointless for me.

I feel for DQ if his little boy was injured. Hopefully not too seriously although I know as a father how worrying it can be. Doesn't excuse the bullying behaviour though, but don't worry, I have other things to be doing now, so I'll try to avoid here as much as I can if possible. Thanks for support guys, you know who the ignorant bullies are...

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

Your arrogant rude posting is beyond a joke, think before you post man. You are blaming it all on DQ, look at yourself and your posting style.

Two people have supported you out of how many members. FFS I have been designing products for over 40 years and I don't display the arrogance you are doing in your posts even this one, just because you spent some years in retail repeating the bullshit you were fed. You should have learnt three times as much about hi-fi reality in the last two years than the whole of your shop experience. BUT you still go back to type and bullshit.

[Daniel Quinn]

Toddler DQ is fine if a liitle scarred. He as just had the time of his life at a dinosaur theme park.

One of the points of this forum is for people to share their experiences of travelling a hifi road less travelled away from the othodoxy you will find elsewhere , it often involves nva but not always .We may not agree and we may say so. But from the day the doc founded the forum if some one tries something but prefers something else ,we do not tell they are wrong .

Now if certain posters attempt to and that is frowned upon it is not bullying it is upholding the ethos of the forum.

It is only through people sharing their honest individual experiences that any of us actually decide what we should personally try and thus learn for ourselves.

[tomblackford]

Ad hominem (Latin for "to the man" or "to the person"[1]), short for argumentum ad hominem, is a logical fallacy in which an argument is rebutted by attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument, or persons associated with the argument, rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

Meaning!

[tomblackford]

Well, perhaps I'm misinterpreting, but I think a lot of what has gone Dave's way (in this thread and others) could be considered to fall into the above definition.

I don't pop in too much but I'm a number of occasions I've seen what seem to be huge overreactions to Dave's postings, almost as if DQ in particular is just waiting to cut him down at any opportunity (see argument about dl-160 vs dl-110 on one of my topics etc)...

It's not all one-way, I'm sure it's just some kinda personality clash the prevents them from agreeing to disagree, but it really does look a bit childish to the casual observer. I would also question the notion that Dave has anything other than helpful intentions for his posts, despite how they are being interpreted.

Anyone I'm sure Dave is more than capable of defending himself and not sure I'm doing anybody any good by labouring this.

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

You are not admin or a mod last time I looked. If it had been ad hominem it would have been removed. Basically it was the content that was talked about and the content involved the person.

There needs to be a little common sense in this. Dave needs to make an effort to change how he posts to remove the "I am a specialist expert" arrogance, especially about things where it is not applicable, and avoid shilling his fav dealer and manufacturers at every opportunity. IN WHICH CASE I am sure DQ will back off, but it has reached the point where I have joined in as in this case it has been extreme.

Anyway time to move on and people think about how they approach other members and how they post.