HiFi Subjectivist ¦ Audio Forum ¦ NVA User Group

Knobs and needles. It's all about knobs and needles.

Geoff.R.G wrote: ↑Fri Apr 09, 2021 11:08 pm

CycleCoach wrote: ↑Fri Apr 09, 2021 10:59 pm

Geoff.R.G wrote: ↑Fri Apr 09, 2021 10:42 pm

I'll go along with that.

Yeah, but what about big glowing VU meters!

What about them? As far as I am concerned VU meters belong on a tape recorder, of which I have several, not on an amplifier. The live sound system I use has an amp with huge meters, strangely enough they tend to show exactly the same as the meters on the mixer! If I know what I am putting in I don't need meters to know what I am getting out.

Remember the discussion is "aesthetics," not functionality or necessity.
Just a reminder that functionality starts with F U N
And hair shirts, although doing exactly what they should, can also be a bit itchy!

I think there's a certain beauty from valves, especially with the lights off:

And I also find beauty under the bonnet in terms of engineering excellence being more beautiful to me than engineering mediocrity.

So that for example the turntable motor on the right is more beautiful to me than the one on the left:

CycleCoach wrote: ↑Sat Apr 10, 2021 2:10 pm

Geoff.R.G wrote: ↑Fri Apr 09, 2021 11:08 pm

CycleCoach wrote: ↑Fri Apr 09, 2021 10:59 pm

Yeah, but what about big glowing VU meters!

What about them? As far as I am concerned VU meters belong on a tape recorder, of which I have several, not on an amplifier. The live sound system I use has an amp with huge meters, strangely enough they tend to show exactly the same as the meters on the mixer! If I know what I am putting in I don't need meters to know what I am getting out.

Remember the discussion is "aesthetics," not functionality or necessity.
Just a reminder that functionality starts with F U N
And hair shirts, although doing exactly what they should, can also be a bit itchy!

If you want to look at your amp whilst listening to music, be my guest. As it happens mine isn't visible from my listening position.

I know many people have their system electronics situated against the wall between their speakers, which location obviously lends itself to big meters and flashing lights. I can't do that because on the wall between my speakers is a gas fire.

I know it is a personal thing but I don't see the point in big VU meters on the front of an amp just for the sake of it, especially one that is positioned out of sight. They look great in the dealer's showroom I'll grant you but bopping away where they can't be seen? I think I'll go without. Now some nice glowing valves...

This showed up yesterday. Always wanted to own one, now I need to find a table to put it on.
This will be the cartridge to be installed.

[/quote]

Savvy posted this in the NVA thread but it got me thinking: not strictly about aesthetics, (although the look is part of it,) but about that feeling that there's something we've lost, as the world, and hifi, has "improved."
Most of us can recall the sensations of interaction with a piece of kit like this. The gentle hiss as we switch it on. Often a measured "pop" as the innards reach operating temperature. Reassuring weight of the tuning dial in our fingers. A warm, muted glow of the display, sometimes with little extras like a signal strength meter, or perhaps an extra light to guide us.
The sound of the passing stations as we tune is so iconic I can think of at least a dozen times it's been used by recording artists to convey a sense of passing, or of searching.
As Pink Floyd said in the song: "How I wish you were here."
And then we find the BBC station we wanted. And we're home. A weighty voice is telling us the news, and as usual it isn't great. But the breathy, bass-heavy voice (I can hear it now) also reassures us. Everything's gonna be OK.

Perhaps what has been lost is the tactile quality of analogue. But it has to be the right kind of tactile, nicely weighted dials to rotate, smooth slick to operate switches, reassuring mechanical clicks, an actual physical feeling of what you are doing. If things feel cheap and nasty it ruins it

Computer based audio leaves me cold and uninterested, perhaps because there is nothing to fiddle with. Going into a menu with a mouse or touchpad, or poking a stubby finger at a touchscreen has no tactile quality at all.

The reassuring clunk of r2r controls, the care needed to thread a tape and get it onto the take up reel properly so it doesnt catch the inside of the reel, the slight feeling of impending disaster while hand cuing a record if you have the wobbles on from too much coffee.

These things are simply not there with the way alot of products are designed these days, with a minimalist approach to aesthetics that drives the iphone generation of product design. The smooth shiny buttonless black slab approach that has not changed in nearly 20 years. This was driven by a need to make the technology as easy to access as possible to the consumer, so anyone could operate it regardless of their understanding of what it did and how it worked, but became an aesthetic choice once it became ' how its done '

Give me some controls that feel nice to use rather than a black screen to poke at and a remote control that will get lost. And implement this with some flair so whatever it is doesnt look exatly the same as the next one in the shelf, and ill be happy. Engineer something rather than design by committee

Good comments there, Ant.

My unplanned re-immersion in the joys of vinyl rather echoes what you say above - that physical, visual, tactile side. I didn't realise that I had missed it, it has been so long, and it is a real pleasure to experience it again.

Digital playback, with its convenience and simplicity, does have a prominent place in my audio activities; I am hoping that a healthy combination of the two approaches can be achieved.

CycleCoach wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 8:05 am

Savvy posted this in the NVA thread but it got me thinking: not strictly about aesthetics, (although the look is part of it,) but about that feeling that there's something we've lost, as the world, and hifi, has "improved."
Most of us can recall the sensations of interaction with a piece of kit like this. The gentle hiss as we switch it on. Often a measured "pop" as the innards reach operating temperature. Reassuring weight of the tuning dial in our fingers. A warm, muted glow of the display, sometimes with little extras like a signal strength meter, or perhaps an extra light to guide us.
The sound of the passing stations as we tune is so iconic I can think of at least a dozen times it's been used by recording artists to convey a sense of passing, or of searching.
As Pink Floyd said in the song: "How I wish you were here."
And then we find the BBC station we wanted. And we're home. A weighty voice is telling us the news, and as usual it isn't great. But the breathy, bass-heavy voice (I can hear it now) also reassures us. Everything's gonna be OK.

Interesting comments, personally I don't really "get" that particular piece but that is irrelevant it is the memories it evokes that matter. Many years ago I was at a Hi-Fi show in a Heathrow hotel, in the Quad room there was a 33, 303, FM3 system or two. I idly twisted the tuning knob on the FM3 and, although I really liked the system otherwise, the feel was wrong. At the time I was using a Leak Troughline tuner which had a substantial flywheel attached to the tuning knob and felt "right" something that couldn't be fitted in the much smaller Quad case.

I never did buy an 33 based system but the later 34, FM4 and 306. The FM4 has a tuning knob which is beautifully weighted and feels much better, despite the fact that it isn't analogue tuning at all. There is something about a well weighted and damped tuning system that is completely absent from digital tuning systems. The same applies to camera lenses, manual focus lenses have the same kind of feel, early AF lenses simply didn't/don't feel right at all almost as if they lack "authority". Both manual tuning and manual focus lenses have a silky feeling action as do pure analogue faders and pre-Fly-by-wire aircraft controls. I suppose it is the feeling that moving the control, what ever it is, is actually doing something.