Flat Earth - what does it mean in Hi-Fi terms?

[_D_S_J_R_]

Why? The SHL5+ which replaced my previous model had a much brighter and clearer tone, albeit needing plenty of power to wake them up a bit, and reviewers and owners world wide absolutely wet themselves stupidly over them and with plenty of measurements in-room to back up the subjective opinions. Others have owned the current range and 'upgraded' to the 40th Anniversary models and one or two have directly compared them 'side by side' and commented on Facebook as well as the HUG about the differences they heard. Maybe not the tonal qualities favoured here and I have my own vibes about the corporate attitude, but the order books are full for months on end, there's plenty of money in the bank apparently, the prices high but not as obscene as others in this market are and owners, often with large barely furnished and non-carpeted rooms I should add, absolutely love them to bits and keep them for years.

I'd say Royd was possibly more 'in tune' with the old 'Flat earth' ideal back then than any BBC-influenced brand and possibly some Mission and Pro-Ac generations for a while at one time. Rega only made turntables back then and these preferred a bass-less speaker back then to prevent feedback, which the R200 equipped decks suffered so easily from - far less with the RB models it must be said.

[Classicrock]

All these products are a matter of taste. The most recent Naim amps I heard still sounded sort of bandwidth limited and people on forums have found cheaper streamers and CD that now sound better. Not really able to comment on current Linn but due to price rises (not Linn) the current Linn Akurate LP12 package is close in price to my Orbe / SME 309 if you factor in an equivalent £1K cartridge to the Linn model used. Harbeth to me have always been a curates egg but better than other BBC derivatives I've heard. Again suffering from recent price hikes for relatively minor modifications. Boutique brands are increasing exponentially in price while more modest (and probably close in sound quality) mainstream brands stay pretty much the same. I do however note that the likes of Cambridge and Q Acoustics have started to introduce new top product ranges costing far more than previous offerings. Was there ever a flat earth sound other than 80s Linn/Naim? When they split their products started to deviate quite a bit. Also they did not control every dealership as myth would suggest. I think the shop owners and Sales people were more to blame than Ivor and Julian. Also people should buy with their ears not on what magazines and salesmen tell them. If a salesman tells you other products are rubbish and won't dem them against Linn / Naim walk away.

[joe]

The other thing about 'Flat Earth' was 'source first', as in, buy a Linn LP12, even if that meant you could only afford cheap and nasty amp and speakers. Then, you could climb the upgrade ladder, shedding ££££s as you go. The LP12 would still be there, but with Magik add-ons, also costing ££££s. Plus the horrible jazz-rock that the dealer would play during demos, tapping his foot to suggest that the Linn was 'tuneful' and had plenty of 'PR&T'.

[savvypaul]

The other thing about 'Flat Earth' was 'source first', as in, buy a Linn LP12, even if that meant you could only afford cheap and nasty amp and speakers. Then, you could climb the upgrade ladder, shedding ££££s as you go. The LP12 would still be there, but with Magik add-ons, also costing ££££s. Plus the horrible jazz-rock that the dealer would play during demos, tapping his foot to suggest that the Linn was 'tuneful' and had plenty of 'PR&T'.

The 'next' upgrade would always make all the difference...

[joe]

The other thing about 'Flat Earth' was 'source first', as in, buy a Linn LP12, even if that meant you could only afford cheap and nasty amp and speakers. Then, you could climb the upgrade ladder, shedding ££££s as you go. The LP12 would still be there, but with Magik add-ons, also costing ££££s. Plus the horrible jazz-rock that the dealer would play during demos, tapping his foot to suggest that the Linn was 'tuneful' and had plenty of 'PR&T'.

The 'next' upgrade would always make all the difference...

'Night and day mate. Blows the <insert name of cheaper product> right out of the water.' Lots of inky blackness, disappearing speakers, and big silly grins.

[_D_S_J_R_]

In any vinyl system, let alone analogue gear in general, the source really is the limiting factor in my experience - these days it's the LP itself which has all manner of things done to the music to make it playable, let alone mass producable - loads online if anyone bothers to look. Lose it there and you'll never get it back. To make it 'just' about the LP12 isn't correct really, as in the mid 80's, people were beginning to put Garrard 401's and so on into decent boxes and discovering how much better they could be. Indeed, Naim's JV had a well plinthed 401 with Basik Plus arm in their dem room (much liked by JV) and 'we' were getting mid 70's top direct drives in for a cartridge or stylus change and properly sited on the then new isolation tables, these decks showed how much better they could sound compared to how 'we' used to dem them. Digital is now so good and so cheap, you can bend the rules a good bit, but still not so much with vinyl really. Thing is, a Rega 8 may well 'sound' superb (it does ime, especially in current form), but it's not really a looker as there's so little to 'look at.' Thorens prices are through the roof now, so if they were to relaunch the TD150 that 'started' the Scottish thing off in the early 70's, I wonder how much it would cost today? I'm suggesting pushing £1500 plus arm and in no way is it as well or heavily engineered as a current Majik LP12 chassis these days (ignoring the rather fine Jelco arm Linn now fit).

I also remember a Beolab 5000 amp from the very early 70's (so only around a dozen years old at the time) sounding marvellous into Saras. Of course, the B&O amps were specified comfortably into 4 ohms as standard, so this amp was in its element and never stressed by the 3 ohm Sara loading.

By the way, our customers were encouraged to always bring their own music in for dems. Long lasting friendships often developed through the shared love of music and so much of my record collection was bought thanks to what I heard during demonstrations...

[Ordinaryman]

In my opinion "flat earth" was something put around by those who believed they knew better right or wrong. Some did, some didn't as has been proven over the years, with certain companies still successful in the marketplace despite of people's opinions. I for one was actively buying stuff in the 70s/80s and had no comprehension of "flat earth" I mainly delt with two outlets Rayford hifi Windsor and kJ lesure sound? Uxbridge. Rarely bought a hifi magazine preferring to visit those shops and listen, if I found something I liked then a post dated cheque led to home listening for a week or so, lots of stuff went back, cheque uncleared without any problems. I was imo advised sometimes on what staff believed good but was all ways left to my own decision. Direct comparison was never a problem, book the listening room and compair away. Result was I purchased what I thought was best for me. Made many mistakes but that's what happens. In fact possibly the only "blind purchase"I have made has been with nva something i really don't regret. (I hoped that someday I would be able to listen to more of it but that doesn't seem likely) as for people that say that's crap this is better they don't have my ears,room or music. in 82 I purchased a lp12 from radfords, based on hype,marketing? No direct comparison to the GL 75 I owned (still have it today) make of that what you will. Today's market is very different,internet, forums etc and with all this available what's to be scared of other than your own stupidity. I think, for me that's what the doc implied.

[Daniel Quinn]

Beauty is the eye of the boholder. It isn't a fact.

Your preference for the linn over the rega, says more about your age than their respective aeasthectics

[Lindsayt]

It is of course down to semantics, but the Flat Earth brainwash was very widespread in the UK in the 1980''s.
I was one of the brainwashed masses. I believed that Linn and Naim made the best hi fi in the world.

In the last 12 years I have discovered how wide of the mark that belief was. So wide it's not even in the same continent!

It was all a load of miss-selling on a par with PPI.

There are still remnants of the Flat Earth bullshit. Go on the Lejonklou forum where they still dogmatically stick to the source first mantra, even in digital systems. And they think that tunedem is the only valid way to assess hi fi.

[Ordinaryman]

you could be right, have not heard a rega for many years, don't feel the need to, as for aesthetics don't think I ever purchased something for its aesthetics? and im sure your comment on age is relevant in someway to my post, not so sure as to the content, far be it for me to make it personal, but I would disagree the fact is, beauty is in the eye of the beholder to assume anything else makes an ass out of u and me.