Mains Cables (captive)

[Classicrock]

A subject discussed widely on other forums. It's easy to experiment with an IEC socket but what about captive leads? I have always been reluctant to cut them and introduce another connector and found that ferrite rings make a difference especially on digital equipment. Also found using a modest priced after market cable makes a difference but it is fairly subtle, (or am I imagining this ?)

Nobody appears to be able to explain why mains cables make a difference and the surprising benefits that have been claimed in feeding mains regenerators with very expensive cable. I note The Doc uses captive leads on NVA amplifiers. Are these of the 'standard' variety or of some supposed 'superior' design and has Doc found any differences using 'better' mains cable with the NVA range?

[zebbo]

If I remember correctly, yes, a decent chunky cable did make the NVA sound a little better but that improvement was negated by having the IEC socket/plug. The size of cable required to give an improvement was too big to wire directly to the amp as the casework wouldn't handle it. I think that's right, if not I'm sure Doc will correct. :D

[Daniel Quinn]

I de-soldered the flimsy wire on my Yamaha amp and soldered a new shielded chunkier cable . At the time it made a subtle difference to dynamics. However since then I have changed house , made numerous changes to my TT and changed speaker cable . I am thus lost as to whether it is currently making a difference .

Tweaking eh ,its nothing but a bloody source of frustration and uncertainty . :D

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

I have answered this loads of times, all in the archives.

CE regs introduced in the early 90's. Before that you could do what you like and you took responsibility for product safety.

CE regs created different product rules and standards, I have linked to this loads of times but it seems people still don't understand https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appliance_classes

There are two reasons people use IEC leads now 1/ because if you manufacture to class 1 regs you have to use them by law 2/ because it is illegal not to fit a local plug to new product in the EU, so it is easier to bung a different lead in the box for the different countries.

Per usual some crooked bastards want to turn a necessity into a way of making money so after fit IEC leads were marketed with the usual bullshit. Simply it matters not how good the cable is as the crap designed IEC connectors negate it.

Now NVA, I wouldn't allow my designs to be ruined by idiot civil servants, so I found a loop hole in designing using class 2 regulations. Class 2 / double insulated is the opposite to class 1 as it is illegal to use connectors, you have to hard wire as all mains connectors are single insulated. So all the idiots who cut off my mains lead and fit a line IEC connector, and use after fit bullshit IEC leads are making my amps illegal and making them sound worse.

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

If I remember correctly, yes, a decent chunky cable did make the NVA sound a little better but that improvement was negated by having the IEC socket/plug. The size of cable required to give an improvement was too big to wire directly to the amp as the casework wouldn't handle it. I think that's right, if not I'm sure Doc will correct. :D

Largely correct.

[Classicrock]

Doc. Did you try different grades of mains cable before deciding what to use for hard wiring to your amps? The only difference I can see with aftermarket cables is thicker insulation or twisted strands with claims for RFI reduction or the use of silver wire. Ever tried the later on your amps?

BTW Has anyone pulled RA up on his encouraging the cutting of attached mains leads and fitting his expensive IEC connectors !

[Daniel Quinn]

Now NVA, I wouldn't allow my designs to be ruined by idiot civil servants, so I found a loop hole in designing using class 2 regulations. Class 2 / double insulated is the opposite to class 1 as it is illegal to use connectors, you have to hard wire as all mains connectors are single insulated. So all the idiots who cut off my mains lead and fit a line IEC connector, and use after fit bullshit IEC leads are making my amps illegal and making them sound worse.

That a tad harsh on the magnificent European union , who not only made electronics safer for everybody , made sure intelligent amplifiers designers had a design loophole :D

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

Doc. Did you try different grades of mains cable before deciding what to use for hard wiring to your amps? The only difference I can see with aftermarket cables is thicker insulation or twisted strands with claims for RFI reduction or the use of silver wire. Ever tried the later on your amps?

BTW Has anyone pulled RA up on his encouraging the cutting of attached mains leads and fitting his expensive IEC connectors !

My work with mains leads was when the IEC regs came in early 90's, done very little since then. I believe it is all bullshit for one purpose, to line the pockets of Russ Andrews and MCRU and the likes of them. I am sure there are better sounding kettle leads when compared with other kettle leads, but they are kettle leads so naff in the first place, as the IEC connectors are the worst sounding mains connectors ever made. The old Bulgin Bakelite one sonically piss on them, and even our horrible UK 13amp square pin is better. It is simple there is only one thing better than the best plug made in the world and that is no plug

For me it is all money making bullshit.

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

That is a tad harsh on the magnificent European union , who not only made electronics safer for everybody , made sure intelligent amplifiers designers had a design loophole :D

Well it turned out I didn't need a loophole as the regs are not being policed. If they were *EVERY SINGLE* EU based valve amp manufacturer would be put out of business.

[Sovereign]

RD did you not hard wire your speaker cable recently to your amps and found a sonic improvement ?