DAC to the Future

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Fretless
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Re: DAC to the Future

Unread post by Fretless »

savvypaul wrote: Sat Jan 07, 2023 11:24 am When you upsample in Volumio, does your ESS DAC operate in NOS mode?
The Sabaj / ESS hasn't got a NOS mode but the Denafrips Ares does and I have that set to NOS processing - also for 768 input.

Upstairs:
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DigiVolumio PC + Kiss DP-500 + Sabaj A20d
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Little Bear MC2 + AQ NightHawk
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Re: DAC to the Future

Unread post by Fretless »

A tip for Volumio users playing about with higher sampling rates:

Look at 'Audio Buffer Size' in 'General Playback Options'. The standard size is 2MB which is tiny when you consider the amount of data being used for the hi-res processing

Set this at its max of 12MB.
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TheRealAleman (Sun Jan 08, 2023 11:55 am)

Upstairs:
Vinyl
Pro-Ject 1.2 + Grado Sig Jr + Cambridge Alva Duo
DigiVolumio PC + Kiss DP-500 + Sabaj A20d
NVA: Cube2 - SSP - LS6+ Sabaj A10a {x2)
Little Bear MC2 + AQ NightHawk
Downstairs:
Vinyl
Logic DM101 + Syrinx LE1 + Grado Sig MCX
DigiDenafrips Ares II + Volumio PC + Cambridge CXC
NVA: P50 & PSU - BMUAiyima A07 MAX + Arcam One
HP: Allo DigiOne + Sabaj A10d + AQ NightOwl
Office: Allo DigiOne SIG + SMSL M300se + Douk G4 (x2)
Mission 760 + Monolith 887 + German Maestro GMP 450

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Re: DAC to the Future

Unread post by Fretless »

Playing about with the PCM filters on the Sabaj ESS Sabre DAC and am starting to get the hang of how they operate:

Image

There are 7 different filters to choose from and they mainly control the amount of high frequency roll-off applied during the creating of the analogue signal.

The 'Fast' settings roll sharply from about 20KHz, then there are a couple of intermediates and finally the 'Slow' filters that gently lower the amplitude to around 28KHz.

Soundwise, the Fast settings reduce top-end sparkle and detail, muddying and narrowing the soundstage. Slow filters have masses of pinpoint detail and razor-sharp imaging but can be overly bright and edgy

The intermediate filters (1&3) are where I'm at now with pleasing detail and a full rounded tone.

This will be very system-dependant but gives you the opportunity to tune the DAC's output to your own tastes.

:geek:
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CN211276 (Thu Jan 12, 2023 12:04 am)

Upstairs:
Vinyl
Pro-Ject 1.2 + Grado Sig Jr + Cambridge Alva Duo
DigiVolumio PC + Kiss DP-500 + Sabaj A20d
NVA: Cube2 - SSP - LS6+ Sabaj A10a {x2)
Little Bear MC2 + AQ NightHawk
Downstairs:
Vinyl
Logic DM101 + Syrinx LE1 + Grado Sig MCX
DigiDenafrips Ares II + Volumio PC + Cambridge CXC
NVA: P50 & PSU - BMUAiyima A07 MAX + Arcam One
HP: Allo DigiOne + Sabaj A10d + AQ NightOwl
Office: Allo DigiOne SIG + SMSL M300se + Douk G4 (x2)
Mission 760 + Monolith 887 + German Maestro GMP 450

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Re: DAC to the Future

Unread post by CN211276 »

Fretless wrote: Wed Jan 11, 2023 8:00 pm Playing about with the PCM filter on the Sabaj ESS Sabre DAC and am starting to get the hang of how they operate:

Image

There are 7 different filters to choose from and they mainly control the amount of high frequency roll-off applied during the creating of the analogue signal.

The 'Fast' settings roll sharply from about 20KHz, then there are a couple of intermediates and finally the 'Slow' filters that gently lower the amplitude to around 28KHz.

Soundwise, the Fast settings reduce top-end sparkle and detail, muddying and narrowing the soundstage. Slow filters have masses of pinpoint detail and razor-sharp imaging but can be overly bright and edgy

The intermediate filters (1&3) are where I'm at now with pleasing detail and a full rounded tone.

This will be very system-dependant but gives you the opportunity to tune the DAC's output to your own tastes.

:geek:
This touches on a thread I came across on Steve Hoffman recently concerning the analogue digital debate. A point was made that it is not only the 44kHz cap which is a big issue with digital but also the impact it has without a roll off. In contrast vinyl has a roll of which results in a more engaging sound. I think there is a lot of truth in this, no matter how high the sampling rate is. To these ears my Qutest sounds best and smoother with the above 20kHz filter engaged, with or without the Mscaler. Chord do not say where the roll occurs, the manual merely states that it is the setting for purists.
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Re: DAC to the Future

Unread post by Fretless »

This isn't something that has interested me before now. But seeing as the ESS DAC chips have this facility I decided to investigate.

The whole roll-off debate looks to be where the ideal balance can be found between high-frequency detail and a smoothly enjoyable performance.

A learning experience for me but now I'm at least aware of how it works and what the effect is.
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CN211276 (Thu Jan 12, 2023 9:46 am)

Upstairs:
Vinyl
Pro-Ject 1.2 + Grado Sig Jr + Cambridge Alva Duo
DigiVolumio PC + Kiss DP-500 + Sabaj A20d
NVA: Cube2 - SSP - LS6+ Sabaj A10a {x2)
Little Bear MC2 + AQ NightHawk
Downstairs:
Vinyl
Logic DM101 + Syrinx LE1 + Grado Sig MCX
DigiDenafrips Ares II + Volumio PC + Cambridge CXC
NVA: P50 & PSU - BMUAiyima A07 MAX + Arcam One
HP: Allo DigiOne + Sabaj A10d + AQ NightOwl
Office: Allo DigiOne SIG + SMSL M300se + Douk G4 (x2)
Mission 760 + Monolith 887 + German Maestro GMP 450

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Re: DAC to the Future

Unread post by Lordie82360now »

I have a Sabaj D5 with similar roll off filters to Fret’s a10d 2022 while mine utilises the ESS Pro chip. I have had it around a month and so far the Hybrid setting is my favourite. As he suggests I too have plenty of time to experiment!
One anomaly is that my Sabah seems to take about 45 minutes to warm up even though it is switched on, as is my whole system, all the time.
Either that or it is my lugs that take a while to adjust to listening mode!
At my age more likely to be the latter!!!!!
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Fretless (Thu Jan 12, 2023 8:10 pm)
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Re: DAC to the Future

Unread post by Fretless »

Lordie82360now wrote: Thu Jan 12, 2023 3:41 pm I have a Sabaj D5 with similar roll off filters to Fret’s a10d 2022 while mine utilises the ESS Pro chip. I have had it around a month and so far the Hybrid setting is my favourite. As he suggests I too have plenty of time to experiment!
One anomaly is that my Sabah seems to take about 45 minutes to warm up even though it is switched on, as is my whole system, all the time.
Either that or it is my lugs that take a while to adjust to listening mode!
At my age more likely to be the latter!!!!!
Not noticing any warm-up time needed here - the A10d DAC sits in standby when not in use.

Despite its low price, my Sabaj DAC is a full-blown sonic thoroughbred that can competently compete with expensive big names. I was worried about combining it with the Class D amps but they work excellently together in a solid, authoritative symbiosis. Getting to grips with the PCM filters has got that slight metallic/artificial aspect sorted out and as a whole, my Sabaj-based rig is doing very nice and musical things at the moment.

:dance:

Upstairs:
Vinyl
Pro-Ject 1.2 + Grado Sig Jr + Cambridge Alva Duo
DigiVolumio PC + Kiss DP-500 + Sabaj A20d
NVA: Cube2 - SSP - LS6+ Sabaj A10a {x2)
Little Bear MC2 + AQ NightHawk
Downstairs:
Vinyl
Logic DM101 + Syrinx LE1 + Grado Sig MCX
DigiDenafrips Ares II + Volumio PC + Cambridge CXC
NVA: P50 & PSU - BMUAiyima A07 MAX + Arcam One
HP: Allo DigiOne + Sabaj A10d + AQ NightOwl
Office: Allo DigiOne SIG + SMSL M300se + Douk G4 (x2)
Mission 760 + Monolith 887 + German Maestro GMP 450

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Re: DAC to the Future

Unread post by Fretless »

Had a heated discussion yesterday with an 'expert' on Facebook who insisted that all USB cables must sound the same because they all transmitted the data signal in the same way - and he had the oscilloscope charts to prove it.

I said 'use your ears' which he found very unscientific.

Plonker! :angry-tappingfoot:

Upstairs:
Vinyl
Pro-Ject 1.2 + Grado Sig Jr + Cambridge Alva Duo
DigiVolumio PC + Kiss DP-500 + Sabaj A20d
NVA: Cube2 - SSP - LS6+ Sabaj A10a {x2)
Little Bear MC2 + AQ NightHawk
Downstairs:
Vinyl
Logic DM101 + Syrinx LE1 + Grado Sig MCX
DigiDenafrips Ares II + Volumio PC + Cambridge CXC
NVA: P50 & PSU - BMUAiyima A07 MAX + Arcam One
HP: Allo DigiOne + Sabaj A10d + AQ NightOwl
Office: Allo DigiOne SIG + SMSL M300se + Douk G4 (x2)
Mission 760 + Monolith 887 + German Maestro GMP 450

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Re: DAC to the Future

Unread post by savvypaul »

Fretless wrote: Mon Jan 16, 2023 10:56 am Had a heated discussion yesterday with an 'expert' on Facebook who insisted that all USB cables must sound the same because they all transmitted the data signal in the same way - and he had the oscilloscope charts to prove it.

I said 'use your ears' which he found very unscientific.

Plonker! :angry-tappingfoot:
The eternal debate...I've come to the conclusion that you are both correct.

Data is data, but when you connect a cable between 2 different pieces of equipment, other electrical behaviours are also potentially taking place, such as noise.
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Fretless (Mon Jan 16, 2023 12:18 pm)
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Re: DAC to the Future

Unread post by TheRealAleman »

Had a very similar discussion with a colleague at work. He has tried Expensive cables, Cheap cables, and cannot hear anything different between the two, but his "HiFi" system has a graphic equaliser, so he can "tune" the system to get the sound he wants. :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh: He found it incomprehensible that I would spend almost 3 grand on amplification that doesn't even have tone controls or a remote.
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Fretless (Mon Jan 16, 2023 12:18 pm) • Lindsayt (Tue Apr 04, 2023 1:49 pm)

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