Townshend seismic isolation products

[Geoff.R.G]

My Cube 3's are on 60cm stands, spiked through the carpet on a concrete floor, what do members think regarding where to place the inner tube, between stand and floor or between top plate and speaker?

I suppose theoretically the best place would be between the speaker and top plate because it would remove any vibration in the stand. But how big is the cube3 ? Eight inch ? Top plates are often smaller and that maybe a problem.

You would need a small inner tube like this https://www.amazon.co.uk/Inch-Inn ... 0AHRGX0W

I look forward to reading about the effect with your gear and concrete floor

[antonio66]

I'd seen these on ebay and have just had an offer from the seller, price £4.74, so buying two a huge saving of 50p

[karatestu]

I'd seen these on ebay and have just had an offer from the seller, price £4.74, so buying two a huge saving of 50p

Bargain Dave

[slinger]

I decided to bring this subject up on another forum and there turns out to be quite a few users of Townshend podiums there. They are all very impressed with the effect and three that have replied so far use them on ground floor concrete floors

[Hifi Architect]

I decided to bring this subject up on another forum and there turns out to be quite a few users of Townshend podiums there. They are all very impressed with the effect and three that have replied so far use them on ground floor concrete floors

I was thinking about this this morning. To the layman they may use the term concrete floor and hifi circles usually put floors into one of two boxes, suspended or concrete.
This is misleading particularly in modern buildings. In reality we have suspended timber, floating timber on concrete, floating concrete, suspended concrete or ground bearing concrete. This also is further complicated by wood or laminate which can be stuck or floated over any of the above.
My gut feeling is that most modern floors, regardless of the material used will present more like suspended wooden floors of old because of the inclusion of insulation between the structure or ground and the structural part you place your speakers on.
This may explain some of the above.

[antonio66]

Here's a post from Savvypaul going back to last November:-

Sonically, my least favourite are heavy metal, hollow pillars (single or multiple). To me they sound murky and a bit blurred. Filling them only makes it worse , to my ears. Many think differently, though, and these stands do tend to be very stable (once levelled).

My favourite type is light, rigid and open framed, with non hollow pillars. I most like either the Something Solid XF stands or the Russ Andrews Torltye stands. The latter sound very natural and clean but are very expensive (though do come up now and then 2nd hand for about half their original price) and they have a relatively small top plate. Now that I have a dog, I don't use them for my Cube 1s, but they would be good for Cube 3s. The Something Solid stands are made to your bespoke dimensions, which is very helpful for the non standard requirements of the Cubes and are very stable. I have heard these with Harbeth speakers (they make the bigger Harbeths sound more agile, imo) but not with my Cube 1s.

A half way house is solid wood pillar(s). I prefer open-frame, multiple pillar, if available. These sound much more natural, to me, than heavy metal stands, but not quite as agile as the SS or RA stands.

Also, I vastly prefer oak or RDC cones on the top plate compared to blu tack, or anything made from some sort of rubber.

By inserting a inner tube between the top plate and the speaker, will this cancel out all the effects of the type of stand?

I have found a cheap chopping board that would go on top of the inner tube for my Cube 3's to sit on: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/275133886620 ... 99b8264411

[Latteman]

U can only try

[antonio66]

Chopping boards look good and are big enough.

Dave, it won't take too much effort to try the inner tube in both positions. You can then tell us which is best unless somebody beats you to it

In my mind removing vibration from the stand is a good idea but I may be wrong. Heavy stands are said to hold on to vibration and release it for a longer period. Damping in a speaker (like bitumen sheets) was hated by RD. I believe he thought it reduced the magnitude of cabinet vibration but prolonged it over a longer perood of time ie sneared the timing, Taking that view and applying it to stands then any damping in hollow uprights might produce the same effect. Light stands may sound faster as they don't store the energy as long.

So if stands sound different because of how they release the vibrational energy produced from the speaker itself then I would suggest that placing the tube between the stand and speaker will remove those differences as there will be no vibrational energy. In doing so then maybe you are now relying on the speaker cabinet only to radiate this energy.

So how far do we take this isolation - back to the driver itself ? Paul (NS) mentioned somewhere in this thread that he has tried to isolate the driver from the cabinet by using glue and no screws. RD era cubes have the drivers glued on as well with flexible bisonkit I think which may be having a similar effect.

How about a bass driver mounted on an inner tube OMG - can't wait to give that a go

[Geoff.R.G]

Isolation isn’t the same as damping, as I am sure we all know. The former is intended to prevent the transfer of energy between objects, the latter is a means of converting energy from one form, motion in this case, to another, usually heat. Whether you use an expensive Townshend platform or an inner tube the flexibility of the isolation medium, coupled with the inertia of the object to be isolated, should ensure that vibration on one side isn’t passed to the other. Increase the pressure in the inner tube and the flexibility is reduced allowing more vibration to be transferred. The same would be true if the mass of the object being isolated had a lower mass (less inertia).

The mass of a speaker is small when compared to a solid concrete floor but a suspended wood floor is a different matter. The relatively low mass of a wooden floor is easily excited either by moving a mass across the floor, e.g. walking across it, or by vibration from a speaker. Attenuating the vibration either way, floor to speaker or speaker to floor, appears to be beneficial but, the attenuator itself with the attached speaker will have a resonant frequency, as will the floor. As long as the resonant frequency is outside the audio frequency band, and the excitation energy is relatively low, effective isolation can be achieved.

Whether the speaker and stand should be isolated from the floor or just the speaker from the stand and the floor? That rather depends on whether the speaker alone has sufficient mass that the resonant frequency, when standing on the isolation system, is outside the audio spectrum. A light speaker on a nearly flat inner tube may hit resonance at a frequency within the audio spectrum a more massive speaker on a slightly higher pressure tube may not. Obviously if speaker and stand together have sufficient mass then isolating the assembly from the floor will be preferable.

However, I am not going to do the maths because there are too many variables and not enough information. This being a subjectivist forum my only response can be “suck it and see”.

[CN211276]

Obviously if speaker and stand together have sufficient mass then isolating the assembly from the floor will be preferable.

This works well for me with Cube 1s. The stands are heavy metal filled with sand and spiked. The floor is concrete with wooden overlay. Small mats protect the floor from the spikes which support a lot of weight.

This thread has got me thinking about the second system where the Cubettes are on a chest of draws which is far from ideal. They are supported by rubber washing machine supports. I have some wooden cones lying around and think I will give them a try. Rubber tubes would not have a good WAF.