Good, Cheap, Cartridges

[Progmeister]

I got both my moving coils from Japan. A zyx and an audio technica. Both for less than £350.which is £70 dearer than a goldring mm.

The at cantilever is a marvel of modern engineering.

I'm at a loss on why you would pay more or less.

Which Audio Technica did you buy?

[CaterhamKev]

For £350 I am guessing AT33PTG/ii or the OC9ML.
Both great cartridges. I think Audio Technica offers superb value for money, even if the latest models seem to have increased in price.

One of my favourite cartridges os the AT20. Not particularly cheap for a vintage cartridge, but sounds lovely.

I am not sure if it is worth upgrading to something "better" for a minor(?) improvement, especially when ignorance is bliss.

[Lurcher300b]

I think there's a lot of rubbish talked about cartridges. The innards are simply copper and a magnet. How can they sound different from cartridge to cartridge, with the exception of output.

So, to take that to the extreme to point out the flaw in your statement, do you suggest that all MM and MC cartridges sound exactly the same if you ignore the output voltage?

[Lurcher300b]

Likewise, do all loudspeakers sound the same, after all they are just wood, plastic, paper, copper and a magnet?

[Vinyl-ant]

Depending on the defenition of cheap, I like the audio technica af-f7 moving coil, about 230 quid, which isn't too bad.
Moving Magnet, vm540 ml, about the same in terms of price.
But i have pedantitis and borderline ocd when it comes to these things, and can't stand any hint of mistracking. it drives me barmy. I can't live with it, it ruins my enjoyment. But everyone is different, and have levels of what they are willing to put up with. some people swear a rega carbon is great, I thought it was shite. some find the at f7 bright and somewhat edgy, i persevered with it because it tracks very well, and managed to tune it out with anal and obsessive setup. Then I liked it.

My favourite carts are dynavectors, apart from the 10x5, I couldn't get it to track how I wanted it to and I still don't know why, and they are not as good value as they used to be. My very favourite is an ancient 1981 vintage dv20a2. Which can be had for about 150 quid if you can find one, but unless it is nos and has been stored still sealed like mine was is not something I can recommend.
Vintage mm carts with replaceable stylii are more of a safe bet if the stylii are still available, at15 and at20 shibata carts are a good bet but ain't any cheaper these days than buying a new at cart. Classic mc carts are not a safe bet unless you figure in retipping costs and even then they may not be salvageable if suspension components have bit the big one.

A very open ended question that has no simple answer, and certainly no consensus

[Daniel Quinn]

I think there's a lot of rubbish talked about cartridges. The innards are simply copper and a magnet. How can they sound different from cartridge to cartridge, with the exception of output.

So, to take that to the extreme to point out the flaw in your statement, do you suggest that all MM and MC cartridges sound exactly the same if you ignore the output voltage?

Engineering not vodoo is the source of differences. If there ain't no engineering differences I would suggest there is a reliance on voodoo.

I bought the one with a boron cantilever and fine line diamond

[Vinyl-ant]

Edit: this is my opinion. It is not a statement of fact. It is vague and rambling, and is simply my thoughts.

There are engineering differences in the construction tolerances and materials used. I think the engineering differences are subtle and it's the design that is the tricksy, and that is what affects the sound. Which set of compromises are used. Its a balance. As an example, there are 2 ways to increase output. You can either increase the magnet power or increase the coil turns. A more powerful magnet has a cost attached to it, and wether this is fixed in the body or fixed to the cantilever also matters.
It's more convenient to increase the power of a fixed magnet as it can be physically bigger, not so if its on the cantilever, bigger is heavier, the moi of the cantilever has to be taken into account as the factor determining the size and weight it can have.
Increasing turns on the coils is more convenient in a fixed coil design, size and weight are again not so limited, but more turns means more inductance, reactance, resistance ect, and more sensitivity to loading. Picking one of the above, the more inductance it has, the more the frequency range is affected.
Different cartridge designs alter this balance between the properties of the magnet and the coils. The suspension compliance also affects this balance, as this sets the resistance to movement of the cantilever. More compliance in the assembly could potentially allow a slightly heavier magnet in an mm design, or less compliance could mean that it makes coil wires in an Mc design less prone to breakage by restricting the movement of the assembly more.
Cantilever construction will also affect the balance, the stiffer it is, less energy could be lost that would otherwise go into flexing the cantilever instead of moving the magnet or coil.
Tip mass could affect the balance as along with whatever is on the other end of it, it will affect the moi of the cantilever, and its ability to change direction. A heavy (relatively speaking) cantilever with a large stylus and a load of glue holding it in place, is inevitably going to have a harder (again relatively speaking) time changing direction.
The designer will have been given a budget to work with and had to come up with an acceptable set of compromises to work within that budget.
Imo it's the compromises that dictate the sound rather than the engineering. For example, being able to wind a coil from thinner wire so that it gives less weight and size for the same amount of turns turns is more difficult and costly, but in an mc cart that can have a more powerful magnet fitted to keep the same output voltage, the advantage is that there is less weight in the assembly. The moi is less, meaning the stylus is easier to move. Couple that with a light stiff cantilever and a nude stylus with as little glue as possible, and you have a very 'fast' generator.
You may not be able to do that without the same budget.
Stylus alignment and fit is the same. The better the alignment is, the closer to din spec it can perform.
The sound is in the minute, not the concept

[Daniel Quinn]

The vast majority of your post is opinion. Vague, non specific opinion at that.

I tend to treat opinion with sceptism.

[Vinyl-ant]

I know it is.
See above edit to confirm that I'm aware that it is a vague opinion, and that it should not be taken in any way other than an opinion, and should be treated with a healthy degree of skepticism
The reader should draw their own conclusions based on their own research, and be aware that their thoughts on the subject are also opinion only.

[Lurcher300b]

Engineering not vodoo is the source of differences.

I agree 100%, but then I wasn't the one that said

I think there's a lot of rubbish talked about cartridges. The innards are simply copper and a magnet. How can they sound different from cartridge to cartridge, with the exception of output.

I bought the one with a boron cantilever and fine line diamond

Good choice, I use a 103R rebuilt with a boron cantilever and fine line diamond. So keeping the coil and magnet from the original.