AoS

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Wet Cotlake
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Re: AoS

Unread post by Wet Cotlake » Fri May 11, 2018 10:08 pm

Dr Bunsen Honeydew wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 6:54 pm
Roughly the same argument as with fuses, if you don't need them why be conned / bullshitted into getting them. Obviously Bigboy has a motive.

Mains cables well we all need them, but we don't need those horrible IEC plugs and sockets. The UK 13amp is bad enough but those things are really horrible, so hard wire. It is just laziness as different leads can just be thrown in the box depending on where the order goes, that is the only reason they came about, and in the process gave the slurpers another opportunity to rip you off.. I am afraid it is just another *Hi-Fi* thing, NVA uses a fixed mains lead of good quality, all the music is there, the rest of the invented bollocks they talk about I can do without, and so can you. Fuses as well, I design so I don't need them. Can a £130 fuse be better than no fuse, logic dictates that to be impossible.

So if an A20 needed a MCRU bollocks overpriced mains leads or those rip-off fuses, #1 it would at least triple in price, and for what benefit - NONE! in fact probably a loss of music.
Doc, I have often read, not only here, that IEC sockets and plugs are bad. I appreciate they are a worse alternative to hard wired mains, but other than that, what is bad about them?

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Dr Bunsen Honeydew
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Re: AoS

Unread post by Dr Bunsen Honeydew » Fri May 11, 2018 10:45 pm

Thin pins, bad contact, round pins always make better contact as with Schuko and BS546 and even the old Bulgin plug. Just bad design mostly badly made, or bling bullshit made. The socket is worse than the plug. Why make all the focus on the quality of the wall plug when the other end is crap.

Anyway it only happened in the first place due to CE regs coming in early 90's. They said from now on a plug for the country the item is going to must be factory fitted, to stop bad fitted plugs when done by end users. Well as I say laziness and cheapness by the manufacturer. They only need one pile (well two if due to voltage) of stock in the warehouse, tops unsealed, and a lead for the country required thrown in just before sending. So we ended up with the proliferation of the use of kettle leads as they were generally available.

For me I live in a different manufacturing world than other hi-fi makers as I use ClassII appliance regs as opposed to ClassI, so I have to have a fixed mains lead, but as I build to order it is not a problem for me.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appliance_classes
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Eric Shun
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Re: AoS

Unread post by Eric Shun » Fri May 11, 2018 10:55 pm

Looks like Biggy is watching us from under his anonymours cloaking shillket as first of four Biggy Phono Bake Off 10 Commandments has now appeared:
Biggy wrote: Q: Is it attendance by invitation?

A: No, any AoS member is welcome, Members from TAS and the LH forums have already been invited. No other forum's members will be considered.
That won't stop me Mr Biggy, I'm an AoS member :dance:

However, two of the promised attendees with higher end phono stages have fallen at the first fence. Not as easy as being a security guard or pseudo cable guru is it Biggy? That'll teach you to hijack the idea :naughty:
Read all about it on The Cloak Online
https://thecloakonline.blogspot.com

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Dr Bunsen Honeydew
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Re: AoS

Unread post by Dr Bunsen Honeydew » Fri May 11, 2018 11:07 pm

I don't need an invite Bigboy as it was my my bake-off in the first place, and I have posts to prove it. Are you going to put bouncers on the door :lol: :lol:

It was created by Firey and me, even you are an after thought, just performing your tag team function. Neither Macca nor AoS were part of the project. The point was Firey saying his thing is much better now than the one pissed on in the Uddersfield bake-off by the NVA Phono2 (and others). So where is the request for the NVA or are you still scared shitless by it? AND as it is MY bake-off, no Phono2 or 3 comes without me being there to make sure you don't play the same games as you tried on at Uddersfield until shown up and had to back down.
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Eric Shun
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Re: AoS

Unread post by Eric Shun » Fri May 11, 2018 11:16 pm

Of course the pair of them are running scared Doc. But you also have to factor the elephant in the room too. Now that this has quite handily turned into an AoS event, even if there was an appetite to seriously compare a broad list of equipment, it wouldn't be allowed to be reported. That's no coincidence. Even if he had an ounce of integrity, would Biggy compromise his AoS membership in an effort for the truth to be reported? Of course he wouldn't, its the only place he and Fireybum get away with their blatant shill behavior :naughty:
Read all about it on The Cloak Online
https://thecloakonline.blogspot.com

Wet Cotlake
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Re: AoS

Unread post by Wet Cotlake » Fri May 11, 2018 11:27 pm

Dr Bunsen Honeydew wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 10:45 pm
Thin pins, bad contact, round pins always make better contact as with Schuko and BS546 and even the old Bulgin plug. Just bad design mostly badly made, or bling bullshit made. The socket is worse than the plug. Why make all the focus on the quality of the wall plug when the other end is crap.

Anyway it only happened in the first place due to CE regs coming in early 90's. They said from now on a plug for the country the item is going to must be factory fitted, to stop bad fitted plugs when done by end users. Well as I say laziness and cheapness by the manufacturer. They only need one pile (well two if due to voltage) of stock in the warehouse, tops unsealed, and a lead for the country required thrown in just before sending. So we ended up with the proliferation of the use of kettle leads as they were generally available.

For me I live in a different manufacturing world than other hi-fi makers as I use ClassII appliance regs as opposed to ClassI, so I have to have a fixed mains lead, but as I build to order it is not a problem for me.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appliance_classes
So I think you are saying it is the level of surface contact that is important and IEC connectors have much less contact compared to a hard wired option or 15A or Schuko connection. Accepting that basic shortcoming of the IEC connection, within the peramiters of performance and safety requirements, (my experience is quality IEC connectors are much tighter and harder to separate than their alternatives) is there anything that suggests the IEC socket/plug is actually inadequate. Is sound performance compromised? Is it less safe? Is it just another way of doing it satisfactorily?

Wet Cotlake
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Re: AoS

Unread post by Wet Cotlake » Fri May 11, 2018 11:43 pm

It seems to me that posting what you do here, you simply soil your own opportunity of getting there and proving your Phono stage point. You are so engrossed in the politics of hi-fi fora, you fail to form a strategy to achieve your objective (unless of course your priority is having a fight) Why not stop interjecting and challenging all that is written elsewhere. For sure it is crap and much better just ignored. Stay silent and just turn up on the day with your Phono stage. Unless you were uncivil on the door, they would never refuse your inclusion. Just quietly do it. It is as simple as that.

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Dr Bunsen Honeydew
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Re: AoS

Unread post by Dr Bunsen Honeydew » Sat May 12, 2018 12:18 am

It is not that simple it has been going on for years, it has its own history and its own momentum, none of it instigated by me. It is largely now piss take and showing them up for the frauds they are - they don't want honest comparison, never have done. The only time it happened they had to be tricked into it, and they have regretted it ever since.

The process here is largely for people on the other forums who read here to see them for what they are, not what they pretend to be. I expect nothing positive to ever come from them only games and conflict. So we play as well.

I / we have always been completely open and honest in bake-offs, loans, or any form of comparisons. We do not ban people or products from attending or joining in, yet the ones we are organising at Savvy's gaff are being deliberately ignored or excuses made not to attend, yet NVA and me are banned at (it seems) any other bake-offs these forums are organising - think about that, it doesn't take much intelligence to work out the truth that they are scared shitless they will not WIN any bake offs. You see for us that is wrong attitude, I will put my product up even if I know something else is better (not happened yet), it is the reality that is important not lies and manipulation and marketing.

If you are a genuine member here you know the only thing that interests us is music, and the more enjoyment of it.

I have said it over and over and over and over again. I never instigate conflict, I respond to conflict instigated on me, and that is a fact that can be proved in archives. If I cannot avoid a war I will simply enjoy fighting it. BUT in EVERY situation I will make peace, the offer is there all the time to all of them, it requires honesty and going back to day one and forgetting the past. I have offered it over and over again and been ignored or refused. One example here that seems to be working is with SQ(whatever), we are making a forum relationship work here after years of rudeness and conflict - it can be done, people just have to be willing.
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Dr Bunsen Honeydew
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Re: AoS

Unread post by Dr Bunsen Honeydew » Sat May 12, 2018 12:37 am

Wet Cotlake wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 11:27 pm
So I think you are saying it is the level of surface contact that is important and IEC connectors have much less contact compared to a hard wired option or 15A or Schuko connection. Accepting that basic shortcoming of the IEC connection, within the peramiters of performance and safety requirements, (my experience is quality IEC connectors are much tighter and harder to separate than their alternatives) is there anything that suggests the IEC socket/plug is actually inadequate. Is sound performance compromised? Is it less safe? Is it just another way of doing it satisfactorily?
Pretty obvious I would have thought, everything is judged here by music not hi-fi. Mains cables can sound different and some can sound better, but not at an important level in the music as with interconnects and speaker cable, but the process of creating music blockages, as all plugs and sockets and cables do, does not help this process, some are just worse than others, it is ameliorated by hard wiring where you can.

ANYTHING that sits in the signal path will damage the music to a greater or lesser degree, it is just some things are essential to have otherwise the process doesn't work. That is the process of choice and compromise.
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savvypaul
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Re: AoS

Unread post by savvypaul » Sat May 12, 2018 9:28 am

Dr Bunsen Honeydew wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 12:18 am
It is not that simple it has been going on for years, it has its own history and its own momentum, none of it instigated by me. It is largely now piss take and showing them up for the frauds they are - they don't want honest comparison, never have done. The only time it happened they had to be tricked into it, and they have regretted it ever since.

The process here is largely for people on the other forums who read here to see them for what they are, not what they pretend to be. I expect nothing positive to ever come from them only games and conflict. So we play as well.

I / we have always been completely open and honest in bake-offs, loans, or any form of comparisons. We do not ban people or products from attending or joining in, yet the ones we are organising at Savvy's gaff are being deliberately ignored or excuses made not to attend, yet NVA and me are banned at (it seems) any other bake-offs these forums are organising - think about that, it doesn't take much intelligence to work out the truth that they are scared shitless they will not WIN any bake offs. You see for us that is wrong attitude, I will put my product up even if I know something else is better (not happened yet), it is the reality that is important not lies and manipulation and marketing.

If you are a genuine member here you know the only thing that interests us is music, and the more enjoyment of it.

I have said it over and over and over and over again. I never instigate conflict, I respond to conflict instigated on me, and that is a fact that can be proved in archives. If I cannot avoid a war I will simply enjoy fighting it. BUT in EVERY situation I will make peace, the offer is there all the time to all of them, it requires honesty and going back to day one and forgetting the past. I have offered it over and over again and been ignored or refused. One example here that seems to be working is with SQ(whatever), we are making a forum relationship work here after years of rudeness and conflict - it can be done, people just have to be willing.
Oliver (Bigman80) has said he is still keen to get up to mine some time. I'm happy to host him (he can bring some of Alan's phono stages) and SQ and yourself for a Firebottle / NVA / Paradise session. I think we'd have a great day.
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