Human vanity

[CN211276]

I had not heard of Colston until all this happened and have been going to concerts at the Colston Hall for the best part of forty years. Never gave a thought to how it got its name. Would agree that the best place for his statue is in a museum. It seems that a can of worms has suddenly been opened. My favourite sit com Fawlty Towers is in the firing line and you do not have to delve deep to find a lot from the 70s which would cause offence. A lot of rock lyrics from that time spring to mind. Could they strip Mick Jagger of his knighthood.

[slinger]

Statues are often erected as a celebration of a person's deeds, not just as a straightforward memorial to them from birth to death, encompassing their whole life.

Colston used his wealth to support and endow schools, hospitals, almshouses and churches in Bristol, London and elsewhere. The problem is, a part of his wealth was gained through the slave trade, as well as from trading wine, fruits and cloth. All of those things were "respectable" at the time. Apparently, we still don't know what proportion of his fortune was earned specifically through slave trading.

He did good things with dirty money, to boil it right down to basics.

My personal opinion is that the statue should be preserved in a museum, with the relevant information provided; all of it. We shouldn't bury the past (or drown it) or we, and future generations, will not be able to learn from it.

As indicated, just a personal opinion.

[savvypaul]

Statues are often erected as a celebration of a person's deeds, not just as a straightforward memorial to them from birth to death, encompassing their whole life.

Colston used his wealth to support and endow schools, hospitals, almshouses and churches in Bristol, London and elsewhere. The problem is, a part of his wealth was gained through the slave trade, as well as from trading wine, fruits and cloth. All of those things were "respectable" at the time. Apparently, we still don't know what proportion of his fortune was earned specifically through slave trading.

He did good things with dirty money, to boil it right down to basics.

My personal opinion is that the statue should be preserved in a museum, with the relevant information provided; all of it. We shouldn't bury the past (or drown it) or we, and future generations, will not be able to learn from it.

As indicated, just a personal opinion.

I think the wording on the plaque was a big part of the problem, regarding the Colston statue:

"Erected by citizens of Bristol as a memorial of one of the most virtuous and wise sons of their city AD 1895"

In reality, after a public appeal, Colston's admirers still had to stump up their own cash to get the statue finished, and the money he donated was on the condition that it could only go to groups who shared his own religious and political beliefs.

[Fretless]

Colston Hall in Bristol is/was a well-known concert venue.

[CN211276]

Colston Hall in Bristol is/was a well-known concert venue.

Very well known to me as it is in the nearest city to Cardiff. If a band I liked was not coming to Cardiff it iwas not far to travel. I never gave a thought as to how it got its name.

[Docfoster]

My favourite sit com Fawlty Towers is in the firing line and you do not have to delve deep to find a lot from the 70s which would cause offence.

I think it's because in "The Germans" episode there is a scene in which the major uses several racial slurs when discussing "West Africans" and "West Indians". I think it's fairly obvious that in that scene that The Major is used like Alf Garnet, to lampoon people who hold such views. But that's not to say it wouldn't cause offence nor that it wouldn't give succour to people with high-level racist views.
In any event I regard slavery, as an actual racist action that physically impacts on victims, to be worse than any offensive racist comment.

Would be good to see a popular and media focus on current day slavery to though. Taking statues doesn't really help people who right now are being treated like shit. Probably need a cartoon for that...

More generally, my take is that "being a racist" has become one of the greatest taboos. This is good. Racist behaviour has caused massive cruelty and an enormous amount of death. In recent decades taboo, the natural way by which humans police behaviour within groups, has been brought to bear on "racism". As a result racism's most obvious, most violent and most unpleasant manifestations have, thankfully, become less common. But labelling "racism" (as opposed to "racist actions") as a "taboo" means that it has become extremely difficult, impossible even, for an individual to consciously acknowledge racist / xenophobic biases within themselves. To be guilty of breaking a taboo is painfully shameful.
The problem is that we are a tribal species; "groupness" is hard-wired into us. Not specifically racial groupness, but groupness more generally. Parts of our brains have evolved to frame our social world as "in group" and "out groups". Much of human history and current affairs are taken up with various tirbalisms: national, political, ideological, class, sporting, hifi-forums, and racial. And yet despite knowing this I find it incredibly hard to consciously accept that I might be capable of xenophobic impulses or racist thoughts. They are up there with the worst human faults that society tells me that I must not have. So I have convinced myself that not only I am not a racist. I am incapable of racism. That I remain on the right side of the taboo. That I am safe in my society.
I have no reason to think I'm unique in this self-deceit. I would imagine that everyone has, to some degree, racist or xenophobic impulses, but that when asked "are you a racist?" would say "No. How very dare you?!". There should be no shame in announcing vague xenophobic impulses any more than there should be shame in declaring that one has impulses around food or alcohol. What should matter is: how much one cares about arresting those impulses; how much one has developed an awareness of them and; how effectively one can prevent them from determining behaviours.

I genuinely do not recall ever having committed any aggressive racist acts. I haven't hurt anyone physically because of their race and I haven't called anyone any names. So by that measure I'm not a racist. Hooray! (I do occasionally jest with my half-Italian wife.) But I think that the current BLM sentiment (not movement) is seeking to highlight the need for action against less obvious and more systematic racisms. Things like changing the National Curriculum so that future generations will know about Colson and his victims (among other things), switching our electoral system to proportional representation so that minorities are better represented by our democracy, or working to break correlations between race and socio-economic disadvantage. I think that these are the sorts of things that constitute combating racism today. Not simply not being a skin head or not being an Alf Garnet. I'm trying to be self aware about how to think about these issues. I'm not finding it easy.

[Daniel Quinn]

Thought should not be a crime.

And I'm more inclined towards words should not be a criminal matter.

[antonio66]

"All thing that were 'respectable' for the time"
An excellent analogy Mr Stringer. I would rather see the media and these protestors get behind more relevant events than destroying statues of the past. The slave trade still exits, why not bring this more to the fore and start putting an end that.
BLM should read ALL LIVES MATTER.

[Lindsayt]

Where does it all end? Should we start burning Bilbles because of the slavery content in them?

BTW, I took my teenaged children to one of the George Floyd protests last week.
As a small part in their preparation for adult life. Exposing them to a variety of events.
As I said to them, the death of George Floyd was a bad thing. Something that's worth protesting about. But there will be a lot of people there with certain political views. People that don't like the Conservative party and will use any excuse to protest against them.

[ArloFlynn]

That Fawltey Towels is perhaps the funiest comedy episode I have ever seen. Still never mind, just don't mention the War.