Coronavirus restrictions: are they legal

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savvypaul
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Re: Coronavirus restrictions: are they legal

Unread post by savvypaul »

Lindsayt wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 1:04 pm

Anyone is quite welcome to have the viewpoint that they like certain totalitarian laws.
Anyone is quite welcome to think that in certain areas, the State should act as a Nanny.

I however, do not agree with this philosophy.
Or, you could consider that our ability to join together to agree to make individual compromises for the greater good of our fellow human beings is a positive thing.

Does the UK feel like a Nanny State? A little bit, to me, sometimes...mostly when I compare to most Scandinavian countries. But, then, I wonder if that impression is caused because most of the Scandinavians I've met attach a far greater importance to looking after all the population, as a given, and legislation is less critical.
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CycleCoach (Wed Apr 14, 2021 2:03 pm) • valvesRus (Wed Apr 14, 2021 2:15 pm)
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Re: Coronavirus restrictions: are they legal

Unread post by CycleCoach »

Lindsayt wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 1:55 pm
savvypaul wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 1:44 pm

That would depend on the definition of a 'person providing services'.
Well what do you call it, if it isn't providing services? When a delivery driver carries a box of items ordered by the shop into the premises?

What would any reasonable person call it?
More barrack-room lawyer bullshit.
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valvesRus (Wed Apr 14, 2021 2:15 pm)
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Re: Coronavirus restrictions: are they legal

Unread post by ArloFlynn »

Lindsayt wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 1:50 pm
valvesRus wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 1:39 pm

I admit I don't know the exact number. I could look it up on Google, but the fact (and it is a fact) that millions of Jews were sent to concentration camps by the trainloads to be annihilated in gas chambers is undisputable.

It saddens me that you are perusing this argument.

I'm over 70, and reasonably healthy, but I'm really glad our government have done so much to protect me, and my friends and family from the pandemic.

Yes, mistakes were made, and (in my opinion) more could have been done, but there has been no precedent in modern times to refer to.
How many millions of Jews were sent to concentration camps and annihilated in gas chambers in Germany in 1936?

It annoys me that people in this thread are erecting straw arguments in response to what I've actually said in this thread.

Do you think it's fair and reasonable that that delivery driver was given a Covid Fixed Penalty Notice? The one in the Auditing Britain Youtube video that I linked to a few pages ago.
In answer to The question . P3. No I don't think it was fair.
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Lindsayt (Sun Apr 18, 2021 10:11 am)
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Re: Coronavirus restrictions: are they legal

Unread post by savvypaul »

Lindsayt wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 1:55 pm
savvypaul wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 1:44 pm

That would depend on the definition of a 'person providing services'.
Well what do you call it, if it isn't providing services? When a delivery driver carries a box of items ordered by the shop into the premises?

What would any reasonable person call it?
What I call it is not what matters. In my opinion, any reasonable person would think it reasonable that a delivery driver should wear a mask when making deliveries inside a shop that is open to the public. I'm also of the opinion that it's reasonable anyone who forgets to do so should be given 'advice' on the first occasion, a 'warning' on the second occasion and a fine on the third occasion.

Your complaint about the driver in the video is based on an assumption that the driver had not previously received advice or warning, but you have no way of knowing. Should we assume that the Covid Warden is racist? Should we assume that the delivery driver has been screwing the Covid Warden's husband? Or should we only assume what suits our own argument?
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Re: Coronavirus restrictions: are they legal

Unread post by valvesRus »

Lindsayt wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 1:50 pm
How many millions of Jews were sent to concentration camps and annihilated in gas chambers in Germany in 1936?


[/quote]

If it wasn't 1936, so what ? Whatever year it was it still happened.

As to your question on the delivery driver, he should have realised that when delivering "to any shop" he should be wearing a mask.

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Re: Coronavirus restrictions: are they legal

Unread post by savvypaul »

On an emotional level, it is easy to extrapolate the Nazi state in 1936 to the horrors that we now know took place, and I don't blame anyone for doing so. In fairness to Lindsay, however, and even though I think it an absurd and crass comparison, he asked readers to make a comparison between the UK's Coronavirus restrictions and the Nazi state at a particular moment in time - 1936.
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Re: Coronavirus restrictions: are they legal

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CycleCoach wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 9:21 am
ArloFlynn wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 1:29 am I eat tons of butter, full fat milk, cream in my coffee every day, cheeses, steak as often as affordable. Meats with plenty of fat. 2 eggs daily. Some fruits and vegs. 3000 iu of Vit D. I never wore a seat belt till I had a new car with a bleedin' Beeper! I wont wear a muzzle in a shop but if asked politely I oblige. I may catch Sars cov2 but I wont get Coronavirus and I wont give Coronavirus to you.
The fact that you use the buzzword "muzzle" when describing a surgical mask tells me all I need to know about you. Wow.
Afternoon Cycle Coach,
Wow, thanks for your response. My post was not aimed to aggravate anyone here. Just added in support of Lindsay's prior post.
When Coronavirus first reared its head, the Government and Mainstream media put the fear of God in my family and me.
My wife and I even spoke about what she would do if I should succumb to an illness as a result. After all it was a Pandemic.

last August whilst researching my favourite subject of the time - Nutrition. I happened upon a website/youtube channel that raised my suspicions on the whole Coronavirus issue. Since then I have (mis)spent the past 7 months and a few hundred hours dipping in and out of the Rabbit Hole of Coronavirus discontent...Lockdowns, Face-coverings et all. There is an awful lot of information out there. True or false? both I would say.

My anger is aimed directly at our government and their Sage advisors, for the fear they created then and still do. Not at anyone here for their views.

Cheers.
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CycleCoach (Wed Apr 14, 2021 2:41 pm)
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Re: Coronavirus restrictions: are they legal

Unread post by CycleCoach »

ArloFlynn wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 2:39 pm
CycleCoach wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 9:21 am
ArloFlynn wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 1:29 am I eat tons of butter, full fat milk, cream in my coffee every day, cheeses, steak as often as affordable. Meats with plenty of fat. 2 eggs daily. Some fruits and vegs. 3000 iu of Vit D. I never wore a seat belt till I had a new car with a bleedin' Beeper! I wont wear a muzzle in a shop but if asked politely I oblige. I may catch Sars cov2 but I wont get Coronavirus and I wont give Coronavirus to you.
The fact that you use the buzzword "muzzle" when describing a surgical mask tells me all I need to know about you. Wow.
Afternoon Cycle Coach,
Wow, thanks for your response. My post was not aimed to aggravate anyone here. Just added in support of Lindsay's prior post.
When Coronavirus first reared its head, the Government and Mainstream media put the fear of God in my family and me.
My wife and I even spoke about what she would do if I should succumb to an illness as a result. After all it was a Pandemic.

last August whilst researching my favourite subject of the time - Nutrition. I happened upon a website/youtube channel that raised my suspicions on the whole Coronavirus issue. Since then I have (mis)spent the past 7 months and a few hundred hours dipping in and out of the Rabbit Hole of Coronavirus discontent...Lockdowns, Face-coverings et all. There is an awful lot of information out there. True or false? both I would say.

My anger is aimed directly at our government and their Sage advisors, for the fear they created then and still do. Not at anyone here for their views.

Cheers.
Hi Kevin. Thoughtful contribution to the discussion IMHO.
In my experience there really is a great deal of misinformation on the likes of YouTube re "The Rona." (Probably even worse on nutrition truth be told: but that's another rabbit-hole entirely!)
I have a couple of mates who work in the NHS so I tend to go with what they tell me. One is a well qualified doctor with a lot of experience and he's my go-to guy.
What they've told me:
1) Masks work to minimise spread.
2) Social distancing works.
3) Staying at home works.
This is, basic virology stuff that all medics should have learnt.
The other thing is that they all would have preferred a harder, faster lockdown than we had - also restrictions on international travel etc earlier, but we are where we are.
You unfortunately used the word "muzzle" to describe facemasks, and this is a common description amongst the anti-mask brigade. I find it ridiculous that anyone would argue against masks, or else, why would surgeons wear them? Certainly not for appearances.

Be well.
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CN211276 (Wed Apr 14, 2021 4:07 pm) • ArloFlynn (Wed Apr 14, 2021 4:12 pm)
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Re: Coronavirus restrictions: are they legal

Unread post by slinger »

My general rule of thumb is that I'd prefer to take (with or without investigating further) the advice of someone with recognisable and verifiable medical qualifications than, for instance, Piers Corbyn, Laurence Fox, Lee Hurst, or "that bloke on Twitter who constantly harangues people about muzzles and mind-control chips, and who seems to have superglued his CAPS LOCK down.."

That bastion of truth and democracy, Fox News, is of course vehemently anti-mask. Its most famous bullshit-disseminator, Tucker Carlson is now veering towards being anti-vax too since his idea that The Donald virtually invented the vaccine was ignored by most but the staunchest of Trump supporters. Trump himself suggested they might be called Trump-cines. No, I'm actually not making that bit up.

I don't see any rabid loons marching in support of masks, just against them. We who wear masks simply wear masks, it's that easy. Our means of protest is a peaceful one. Gandhi would have masked up in protest with us I'm sure.

If you think Britain is becoming like Nazi Germany then stop, and ask yourself this simple question... "Would Hitler, as head of the National Socialist Party, have enacted and enforced mask-wearing legislation?" and the answer is a pretty obvious "no."
Hitler was a vain little man, and he'd never have covered the moustache, which was his pride-and-joy, not to mention his trademark. Hitler would more likely have been an anti-masker.

Can I take my tongue out of my cheek, now? I think I'm getting cramp in it. :lol:
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ArloFlynn (Wed Apr 14, 2021 4:12 pm) • CycleCoach (Wed Apr 14, 2021 4:48 pm)
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Re: Coronavirus restrictions: are they legal

Unread post by ArloFlynn »

Thanks for the replies Cycle Coach and Slinger. I will deffinately take your advice and comments onboard, I have found it best not to dismiss anyone's experiences. Back down the Rabbit Hole for now....
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CycleCoach (Wed Apr 14, 2021 4:49 pm)
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