Coronavirus restrictions: are they legal

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savvypaul
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Re: Coronavirus restrictions: are they legal

Unread post by savvypaul »

Lindsayt wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 12:18 pm
Eating butter, eggs, etc make it significantly more likely that you will suffer severe internal injury or death from heart disease, cancer, stroke.

That impacts on emergency services, hospital staff, your family, friends and anyone that pays their taxes.
Not if you eat them in moderation as part of a balanced diet.
Lindsayt wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 12:18 pm
Using a ladder makes it significantly more likely that you will suffer sever injury or death.
Not if you follow the safety procedures.
Lindsayt wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 12:18 pm
As does going ski-ing. etc etc etc.
Then you pay a significant premium on your travel insurance.

We are all going to take some risks. It's part of living. Where those risks drastically impinge on the rights or wellbeing of others is where we need legislation, imo.
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Re: Coronavirus restrictions: are they legal

Unread post by Lindsayt »

CycleCoach wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 9:26 am

Maybe take the time to know the basic facts behind the ridiculous claims you're making.
Do you know any Jews? Ask them about their shared history of Nazi Germany and then ask them how insulting they feel your puerile comparison of their experiences with *being asked to stay at home and wear a mask* is.
Frankly you're making a fool of yourself.
The claim that I made was: "In the last year the UK has been - in many ways - more of a totalitarian regime than 1936 Germany. With there being lengthy periods with large portions of the population effectively being under house arrest."

So, you tell me. Let's compare 1936 Germany against 2020 / 2021 UK / England in the following areas:
Amount of money spent by the government as a percentage of GDP.
Percentage of the population employed by the government.
Percentage of the population in prison.
Restrictions on freedom of movement. Within the country. Entering or leaving the country.
Number of fines given by police officers without prior court action per year per head of population.
Number of laws specifiying legal behaviour.
Number of businesses forced to close down, under threat of fine if they continue to trade.
Number of businesses forced to severely curtail their trading.
Freedom to wear whatever clothing you want wherever you want.
Freedom to congregate.
Freedom to gather to peacefully protest.
Freedom to pursue leisure activities.
Freedom to photograph the outside of a prison without getting fined.
Freedom to deliver a parcel in comfortable clothing without getting fined.
Freedom to go for a walk 5 miles from your home without getting fined.
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ArloFlynn (Wed Apr 14, 2021 1:55 pm)

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Re: Coronavirus restrictions: are they legal

Unread post by valvesRus »

Why not consider where we might be now if the Government had not reacted to the pandemic ?

Most countries in the world have had to do similar to us (UK), those that didn't are paying the price.

If you (Lindsay) want a hobby-horse to complain about I suggest you look at China and their human rights issues.
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CycleCoach (Wed Apr 14, 2021 1:33 pm)

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Re: Coronavirus restrictions: are they legal

Unread post by CN211276 »

Lindsayt wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 12:48 pm
CycleCoach wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 9:26 am

Maybe take the time to know the basic facts behind the ridiculous claims you're making.
Do you know any Jews? Ask them about their shared history of Nazi Germany and then ask them how insulting they feel your puerile comparison of their experiences with *being asked to stay at home and wear a mask* is.
Frankly you're making a fool of yourself.
The claim that I made was: "In the last year the UK has been - in many ways - more of a totalitarian regime than 1936 Germany. With there being lengthy periods with large portions of the population effectively being under house arrest."

So, you tell me. Let's compare 1936 Germany against 2020 / 2021 UK / England in the following areas:
Amount of money spent by the government as a percentage of GDP.
Percentage of the population employed by the government.
Percentage of the population in prison.
Restrictions on freedom of movement. Within the country. Entering or leaving the country.
Number of fines given by police officers without prior court action per year per head of population.
Number of laws specifiying legal behaviour.
Number of businesses forced to close down, under threat of fine if they continue to trade.
Number of businesses forced to severely curtail their trading.
Freedom to wear whatever clothing you want wherever you want.
Freedom to congregate.
Freedom to gather to peacefully protest.
Freedom to pursue leisure activities.
Freedom to photograph the outside of a prison without getting fined.
Freedom to deliver a parcel in comfortable clothing without getting fined.
Freedom to go for a walk 5 miles from your home without getting fined.
Freedom to gas six million jews.
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CycleCoach (Wed Apr 14, 2021 1:33 pm)
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Re: Coronavirus restrictions: are they legal

Unread post by savvypaul »

Lindsayt wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 12:48 pm
CycleCoach wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 9:26 am

Maybe take the time to know the basic facts behind the ridiculous claims you're making.
Do you know any Jews? Ask them about their shared history of Nazi Germany and then ask them how insulting they feel your puerile comparison of their experiences with *being asked to stay at home and wear a mask* is.
Frankly you're making a fool of yourself.
The claim that I made was: "In the last year the UK has been - in many ways - more of a totalitarian regime than 1936 Germany. With there being lengthy periods with large portions of the population effectively being under house arrest."

So, you tell me. Let's compare 1936 Germany against 2020 / 2021 UK / England in the following areas:
Amount of money spent by the government as a percentage of GDP.
Percentage of the population employed by the government.
Percentage of the population in prison.
Restrictions on freedom of movement. Within the country. Entering or leaving the country.
Number of fines given by police officers without prior court action per year per head of population.
Number of laws specifiying legal behaviour.
Number of businesses forced to close down, under threat of fine if they continue to trade.
Number of businesses forced to severely curtail their trading.
Freedom to wear whatever clothing you want wherever you want.
Freedom to congregate.
Freedom to gather to peacefully protest.
Freedom to pursue leisure activities.
Freedom to photograph the outside of a prison without getting fined.
Freedom to deliver a parcel in comfortable clothing without getting fined.
Freedom to go for a walk 5 miles from your home without getting fined.
A relevant comparison would be against other countries who are experiencing an ongoing pandemic. The only country I can think of. off the top of my head, that has had a deliberately more liberal approach, is Sweden.

There's no doubt that the restrictions have been sweeping and drastic. But so is the virus.
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Re: Coronavirus restrictions: are they legal

Unread post by Lindsayt »

savvypaul wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 12:29 pm
Not if you eat them in moderation as part of a balanced diet.


Not if you follow the safety procedures.

Then you pay a significant premium on your travel insurance.

We are all going to take some risks. It's part of living. Where those risks drastically impinge on the rights or wellbeing of others is where we need legislation, imo.
So eating more than 2 egss per day should be banned? And made a fineable offense for anyone doing so?

If ladders are safe if you follow the safety procedures, by the same token not wearing a seatbelt is safe if either your vehicle and all the vehicles around you are travelling at under 5 MPH. Or if you follow the Highway Code you won't have an accident and therefore it doesn't matter if you wear a seatbelt or not.
Ah yes, I can hear you thinking, but what about if another driver causes an accident? Well what if another person causes an accident invlolving your ladder?

Travel insurance is not compulsory when someone goes ski-ing.

How does not wearing a seatbelt impinge on the rights or welfare of others? Any more than eating unhealthy food, smoking, ski-ing, sky-diving or a whole host of other activities that can and do result in injury or death?

Anyone is quite welcome to have the viewpoint that they like certain totalitarian laws.
Anyone is quite welcome to think that in certain areas, the State should act as a Nanny.

I however, do not agree with this philosophy.

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Re: Coronavirus restrictions: are they legal

Unread post by Lindsayt »

CN211276 wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 12:58 pm

Freedom to gas six million jews.
How many Jews were gassed in Germany in 1936?

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Re: Coronavirus restrictions: are they legal

Unread post by Lindsayt »

savvypaul wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 1:00 pm
A relevant comparison would be against other countries who are experiencing an ongoing pandemic. The only country I can think of. off the top of my head, that has had a deliberately more liberal approach, is Sweden.

There's no doubt that the restrictions have been sweeping and drastic. But so is the virus.
2 wrongs don't make a right.
196 wrongs don't make a right.

One way of looking at it, is what does this tell us about the nature of governments, in general in 2020 and 2021?

Globally, is there a culture of Governments being there to serve the people?
Or is there more of a culture of the people being there to serve the Government? Or to be their pawns? Or a resource to be managed by the Government?
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ArloFlynn (Wed Apr 14, 2021 1:57 pm)

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Re: Coronavirus restrictions: are they legal

Unread post by valvesRus »

Lindsayt wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 1:05 pm
CN211276 wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 12:58 pm

Freedom to gas six million jews.
How many Jews were gassed in Germany in 1936?
Surely the actual number is irrelevant ?

Ethnic cleansing is abhorrent (or should be) to all of us, yet it still happens today, in China for one.

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Re: Coronavirus restrictions: are they legal

Unread post by valvesRus »

In many ways it would have been better if the Government had taken stricter measures sooner, like stopping inward travel from other countries.

But we are where we are.

I've yet to meet anyone who does not think the current restrictions are an unfortunate necessity.
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CycleCoach (Wed Apr 14, 2021 1:34 pm)

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