It's time for EVERYONE to compromise...

[savvypaul]

It will still be a deal on EU terms.

Comparatively, they hold the cards.

They can afford to tough it out longer than we can.

No deal is not a credible threat.

[Stemcor1990]

Sav, the answer to your question is yes. Perhaps it’s a bit sad that the notional 26% get what they want. You asked for a compromise and I suggested one. It’s transparent and it would allow the public to make an informed decision (something we didn’t have in 2016). If the compromise means that the “balance of power” is held by the 26% then so be it. It’s the price we pay for democracy.

[savvypaul]

You asked for a compromise and I suggested one.

You did. Thank you.

[Classicrock]

We can't leave without a deal.

We would be plunged in to chaos.

Its why leaving is and always was a con.

It was not a con. How? Cameron justified the referendum by saying there would have to be one eventually. If you join a club you should be able to leave otherwise you have no independence. I voted in a previous referendum to join the common market. The Maastricht treaty changed all that to a union that was a path to a united states of Europe. The people weren't consulted. This was John Major's baby and is why he is sticking his oar in now. There should have been a referendum on Maastricht and likely that would have been rejected and would have been vetoed. Of course the Eu would probably try and force us to have that over and over again. If we were still in a common market the referendum result would have been different. The idea you can't leave just makes half the country more determined to leave. I would agree this relationship is very difficult to unravel when the EU has so many red lines. Of course they want to make it impossible so no other country leaves! If we stay I'm sure the situation will be worse than before because they will seek to punish and diminish us and turn us into a satellite state of Germany and France.

I think unless they get a deal soon the opportunity for compromise will have gone and it can't leave us worse of than being a member for enough MPs to accept it. The question is that if this does not happen is there any point in voting? Leave have the moral high ground because they have the majority in the referendum. I would have accepted if the vote went the other way. Govt agreed to abide by the decision at the time so advisory in name only. Anyway it's been changed into a party political battle on one level while there are splits in the main parties themselves. May didn't help because her negotiations were handled incompetently by civil servants who wanted to stay. This proved that trying to please everyone doesn't work. You can only compromise so far and some have to be left unhappy. There isn't a compromise that will please everyone but maybe one that gets a small majority. Obviously staying (real or virtual) which is opposite of the vote isn't compromise

During the referendum campaign, Johnson said there was no way we would leave without a deal. Davis said doing a deal would take half an hour. Fox said it would be the easiest deal in history.

They have let you down, haven't they?

No because I knew how I was going to vote once Cameron got no meaningful concessions over free movement. I didn't give a bollocks what either side claimed because most of it was complete bollocks same as any election campaign. Frankly I didn't like the way EU had gone and took statements made in the campaign as electionairing puff. Picking over what politicians said in the campaign and assuming that influenced anyone is futile. You don't know why individuals voted one way or another and I doubt many took what politicians said literally. We had easy peasy v project fear so the truth is likely somewhere in between.

[savvypaul]

It was not a con. How? Cameron justified the referendum by saying there would have to be one eventually. If you join a club you should be able to leave otherwise you have no independence. I voted in a previous referendum to join the common market. The Maastricht treaty changed all that to a union that was a path to a united states of Europe. The people weren't consulted. This was John Major's baby and is why he is sticking his oar in now. There should have been a referendum on Maastricht and likely that would have been rejected and would have been vetoed. Of course the Eu would probably try and force us to have that over and over again. If we were still in a common market the referendum result would have been different. The idea you can't leave just makes half the country more determined to leave. I would agree this relationship is very difficult to unravel when the EU has so many red lines. Of course they want to make it impossible so no other country leaves! If we stay I'm sure the situation will be worse than before because they will seek to punish and diminish us and turn us into a satellite state of Germany and France.

I think unless they get a deal soon the opportunity for compromise will have gone and it can't leave us worse of than being a member for enough MPs to accept it. The question is that if this does not happen is there any point in voting? Leave have the moral high ground because they have the majority in the referendum. I would have accepted if the vote went the other way. Govt agreed to abide by the decision at the time so advisory in name only. Anyway it's been changed into a party political battle on one level while there are splits in the main parties themselves. May didn't help because her negotiations were handled incompetently by civil servants who wanted to stay. This proved that trying to please everyone doesn't work. You can only compromise so far and some have to be left unhappy. There isn't a compromise that will please everyone but maybe one that gets a small majority. Obviously staying (real or virtual) which is opposite of the vote isn't compromise

During the referendum campaign, Johnson said there was no way we would leave without a deal. Davis said doing a deal would take half an hour. Fox said it would be the easiest deal in history.

They have let you down, haven't they?

No because I knew how I was going to vote once Cameron got no meaningful concessions over free movement. I didn't give a bollocks what either side claimed because most of it was complete bollocks same as any election campaign. Frankly I didn't like the way EU had gone and took statements made in the campaign as electionairing puff. Picking over what politicians said in the campaign and assuming that influenced anyone is futile. You don't know why individuals voted one way or another and I doubt many took what politicians said literally. We had easy peasy v project fear so the truth is likely somewhere in between.

Do you apply the same forgiveness / pragmatism to MPs who said they would accept 'Leave' but now want a 2nd referendum?

None of us know why every individual voted how they did, and I haven't claimed to, but it is ridiculous to suggest that repeatedly being told that we would leave with a good deal is irrelevant, so spare me such silliness.

[TroutFisher]

Because of the current situation, I am following 24 hour news on the TV day by day. I don’t like the ‘influenced’ BBC presentation and prefer to pick up on facts from Sky and particularly Channel 4 News.

Whilst our politicians are getting their knickers in a twist, like most Britain’s and legitimate immigrants, I can do nothing other than watch with concerned interest. It is so easy for concerned interest to migrate into anxiety and this is what worries me.

Because the country is apparently split and everything in Parliament is also split, I worry about what the outcome will be. Seriously, could we end up in civil war?

Typically, I don’t hold any defined views on Brexit, but the current divide in political opinion frightens me. My history book told me how during the Civil War, people like me with no particular commitment to any cause either way were conscripted forcefully into one army or another. Yes, I know this is an extreme view, but considering all that has happened recently, I feel it is not so unreasonable to express my concern.

As for Brexit itself, I really can’t understand all the fuss. If we are going to leave, deal or no deal, we should ensure we are not in anyway tied into EU rules and procedures. If we stay connected, absolutely no point in having a deal which does not give us a voice/vote at the table. That probably leads to staying in. Full membership must be preferable to a deal with no option of negotiation (Norway). In consequence, a complete split (no deal) is obviously attractive even if as a country we have to go through a bit of pain for a few years. Now I don’t like this option. I have really enjoyed over the last couple of decades, my personal freedom of movement in the EU and the simple convenience of buying anything from any EU state, direct to my home without any additional charge. The potential to lose this is troubling, but I’d rather go no deal than settle for a constrained deal which doesn’t allow us national autonomy.

[CN211276]

That’s the problem isn’t it and that’s why the question should never have been asked of us in the first place.
That the question was even asked, is the biggest piece of idiocy ever to have been perpetrated in peace time.

i am currently visiting family in Dublin (easy access being in the EU) and this is the general feeling. They think we have gone BONKERS. It was echoed by an Irish speaker at the pro democracy demonstration I attended recently in Cardiff. You can be certain that the EU will not allow the Irish Republic to be harmed by any sort of deal. This is not acceptable to hard line brexiteers and why I cant see any deal being agreed. We have to remain.

The Irish border issue has been over looked in this thread. The situation in Northern Ireland is delecate and we cannot risk a return to the previous violence. The referendum should never have been contemplated.

[alfer]

Of course it was a good idea. Satisfied the majority of visible voters.

Compromise eh? Boris and a .... being examples to the world

ADMIN - ad-hom comment removed regarding another forum personality. Implied ad-hom is still ad-hom.

[savvypaul]

Because of the current situation, I am following 24 hour news on the TV day by day. I don’t like the ‘influenced’ BBC presentation and prefer to pick up on facts from Sky and particularly Channel 4 News.

Whilst our politicians are getting their knickers in a twist, like most Britain’s and legitimate immigrants, I can do nothing other than watch with concerned interest. It is so easy for concerned interest to migrate into anxiety and this is what worries me.

Because the country is apparently split and everything in Parliament is also split, I worry about what the outcome will be. Seriously, could we end up in civil war?

Typically, I don’t hold any defined views on Brexit, but the current divide in political opinion frightens me. My history book told me how during the Civil War, people like me with no particular commitment to any cause either way were conscripted forcefully into one army or another. Yes, I know this is an extreme view, but considering all that has happened recently, I feel it is not so unreasonable to express my concern.

As for Brexit itself, I really can’t understand all the fuss. If we are going to leave, deal or no deal, we should ensure we are not in anyway tied into EU rules and procedures. If we stay connected, absolutely no point in having a deal which does not give us a voice/vote at the table. That probably leads to staying in. Full membership must be preferable to a deal with no option of negotiation (Norway). In consequence, a complete split (no deal) is obviously attractive even if as a country we have to go through a bit of pain for a few years. Now I don’t like this option. I have really enjoyed over the last couple of decades, my personal freedom of movement in the EU and the simple convenience of buying anything from any EU state, direct to my home without any additional charge. The potential to lose this is troubling, but I’d rather go no deal than settle for a constrained deal which doesn’t allow us national autonomy.

This is the con, I'm afraid.

No Deal is not a destination. It is like walking out on your partner and leaving the kids and your bank cards behind. There has to be a deal and the first things on the table from the EU will be the £37bn, regulatory alignment and the backstop.

We will, inevitably, continue to abide by EU regulation as they are our biggest overseas market by a wide margin. The difference is that we will now have very little saying in deciding those rules.

We will end up slightly poorer, with poorer working conditions, restriction on personal freedoms, and with reduced international influence.

[Classicrock]

During the referendum campaign, Johnson said there was no way we would leave without a deal. Davis said doing a deal would take half an hour. Fox said it would be the easiest deal in history.

They have let you down, haven't they?

No because I knew how I was going to vote once Cameron got no meaningful concessions over free movement. I didn't give a bollocks what either side claimed because most of it was complete bollocks same as any election campaign. Frankly I didn't like the way EU had gone and took statements made in the campaign as electionairing puff. Picking over what politicians said in the campaign and assuming that influenced anyone is futile. You don't know why individuals voted one way or another and I doubt many took what politicians said literally. We had easy peasy v project fear so the truth is likely somewhere in between.

Do you apply the same forgiveness / pragmatism to MPs who said they would accept 'Leave' but now want a 2nd referendum?

None of us know why every individual voted how they did, and I haven't claimed to, but it is ridiculous to suggest that repeatedly being told that we would leave with a good deal is irrelevant, so spare me such silliness.

What are you talking about. Not even making sense now Savvy? I'm not forgiving anyone. I don't have to forgive anyone on either side. I made my own decisions on Brexit. Just pleased the Brexit campaign won whatever rubbish was said. Do i hate anyone - certainly trots like Corbyn and his crowd. Hearing the news this morning has made me very angry. Wasting more money scrapping Universal Credit and a liberal plot to bring trumped up charges against Boris when Mayor. We have now gone into a parallel universe with events in the USA.