IF there's another Brexit referendum...

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Classicrock
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Re: IF there's another Brexit referendum...

Unread post by Classicrock » Sat Mar 02, 2019 10:32 am

CN211276 wrote:
Sat Mar 02, 2019 9:13 am
Copperblue wrote:
Sat Mar 02, 2019 12:32 am
Classicrock wrote:
Sat Mar 02, 2019 12:15 am


Aaron Banks had F all effect on the vote and that part of the campaign was virtually invisible compared to the official leave campaign led by Boris and co. Most people had made up their minds which way to vote before all the bullshit from both sides started. Again another call to include children in the vote. You can't drink or drive at 16 so why should you be able to vote?
Just another way of hoping the vote changes on grounds all young will vote remain and lots of old people who voted leave have died. The vote was conducted legally and wasn't rigged so is perfectly legitimate and there is no grounds to suggest otherwise. We are back to people who don't like losing not accepting the result. What I am sick of hearing from objectors is the constant suggestion that people who voted leave were too stupid to make a rational decision. Any delay in Brexit will just increase uncertainty. At least no deal is a certainty. Economic forecasts are always wrong and those quoted are based on other factors staying the same. The effects of any disruption have to be offset by changes in government policy regarding tariffs and trade deals negotiated with EU and other countries. Also money saved from EU membership could be pumped into the economy in terms of R&D and grants for emerging industries. Let's face it if there weren't so many idiots in politics a deal would have been agreed by now and they still have the opportunity to vote for a possibly modified deal in a week or two.
Well this is a subjectivist forum....and that is your point of view. Pretty much every point raised I would disagree with based on what I have read, researched and experienced first hand with the companies I work with, so there is no real point in debating the points raised.

I would strongly argue that 16 year olds and above should have a vote on this subject for obvious reasons. The future belongs to them and the older generations have not exactly made much progress in things that matter - rather fucked it up in fact judging by our politicians and the rise of intolerance across society
+1
There should never have been a referendum in the first place. Cameron took a reckless gamble with the nations future because he was scared of losing votes to Ukip. Even if sense prevails and we remain, it has still been costly.
Fact is there was a referendum and the result can't be undone and has to be respected to at least a substantial degree. I think you have to draw a consistent line on who can vote and in law adults are 18 or over. Some people forget until early 70s this was 21. While there is some perception that 16 year olds are more responsible now and more clued up I doubt that is the case. Maybe more open to the untruths flying around online. Anyway leaving EU is primarily a political decision about controlling our own laws rather than economic. While some firms are in a panic those that have been geared up to trade outside the EU mostly are more relaxed about changes. There are always a group of people who are glass half empty and shout loudest. I think there is a silent majority that accept the vote and plenty companies that started preparing for exit a long way back. Businesses should be prepared for any unforeseen eventuality and this one has been pretty predictable for some time.

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Re: IF there's another Brexit referendum...

Unread post by _D_S_J_R_ » Sat Mar 02, 2019 11:02 am

Please remember the 'elderly' voters of today were young and pushing for change in the 'swinging' 60's and even eighty odd year olds were from the shake-up rock-n-roll era of the mid 50's, experiencing and helping to bring about huge changes. The politicians we have seem to be self interested stuffy old relics who bypassed it or have forgotten much of this. We can help change this come polling day (local or national - and we here in Suffolk Coastal as-was have suffered locally too).

16 year olds in the UK have a frightening future and are factory-processed around the exams they need to perform well in so the schools get a good OFSTED rating (can you help or correct me here please Guydarryl as you're not ten miles from me?). Why? because they're not educated about the world at school as much as I believe 'we' were and certainly from local experience, they don't even seem to know where the big towns and cities in the UK are, let alone anywhere else.

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Re: IF there's another Brexit referendum...

Unread post by joe » Sat Mar 02, 2019 11:29 am

savvypaul wrote:
Sat Mar 02, 2019 10:20 am
joe wrote:
Sat Mar 02, 2019 12:27 am
I think any vote would have to be on 'What type of Brexit?' rather than 'Remain or leave?'. But my guess is enough MPs will blink at the risk of a No Deal Brexit and will, however reluctantly, vote for May's deal on 12 March.
Might be difficult to win the 2nd meaningful vote if the Withdrawal Agreement is not meaningfully different to the first meaningful vote...

...if you see what I mean.
I think panic over No Deal will set in and MPs will be less bothered about the small print. The alternative to agreeing May's deal will be seen as No Deal now, or No Deal in x months time (even assuming the EU would agree to an extension of Article 50). There ain't going to be no second referendum, and there ain't going to be no General Election. Looked at in that way, May has (perhaps inadvertently) played a blinder simply by being stubborn.

(For the avoidance of doubt, I voted Remain, and I think Brexit is about the dumbest idea any UK government has come up with, but I don't see that a second referendum with Remain as an option would achieve anything other than to increase distrust of politicians and the democratic process).

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Re: IF there's another Brexit referendum...

Unread post by savvypaul » Sat Mar 02, 2019 11:31 am

Fact is there was a referendum...

Fact is there might be another one...

I think it should only contain leave options but with a majority of MPs being remainers...who knows.
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Re: IF there's another Brexit referendum...

Unread post by joe » Sat Mar 02, 2019 11:35 am

savvypaul wrote:
Sat Mar 02, 2019 11:31 am
Fact is there was a referendum...

Fact is there might be another one...

I think it should only contain leave options but with a majority of MPs being remainers...who knows.
I have no problem in principle with a second referendum, but the practicalities seem difficult: what options should be presented? How many options should there be? What if the electorate choose an option which the EU then reject? I think it'll be many years before the UK holds any referendum on any major political issue.

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Re: IF there's another Brexit referendum...

Unread post by valvesRus » Sat Mar 02, 2019 11:44 am

joe wrote:
Sat Mar 02, 2019 11:35 am

I have no problem in principle with a second referendum, but the practicalities seem difficult: what options should be presented? How many options should there be? What if the electorate choose an option which the EU then reject? I think it'll be many years before the UK holds any referendum on any major political issue.
Well said. I'm sure everything will sort itself out very soon. :)

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Re: IF there's another Brexit referendum...

Unread post by zebbo » Sat Mar 02, 2019 11:45 am

I think the best idea is that we get hold of a few tons of Semtex, sneak into the cellars of the Houses of Parliament and. . . . . . . . . . .. . :lol: :lol:
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Re: IF there's another Brexit referendum...

Unread post by Alfi » Sat Mar 02, 2019 12:41 pm

karatestu wrote:
Sat Mar 02, 2019 8:41 am
Classicrock wrote:
Sat Mar 02, 2019 12:15 am

Aaron Banks had F all effect on the vote and that part of the campaign was virtually invisible compared to the official leave campaign led by Boris and co. Most people had made up their minds which way to vote before all the bullshit from both sides started. Again another call to include children in the vote. You can't drink or drive at 16 so why should you be able to vote?
Just another way of hoping the vote changes on grounds all young will vote remain and lots of old people who voted leave have died. The vote was conducted legally and wasn't rigged so is perfectly legitimate and there is no grounds to suggest otherwise. We are back to people who don't like losing not accepting the result. What I am sick of hearing from objectors is the constant suggestion that people who voted leave were too stupid to make a rational decision. Any delay in Brexit will just increase uncertainty. At least no deal is a certainty. Economic forecasts are always wrong and those quoted are based on other factors staying the same. The effects of any disruption have to be offset by changes in government policy regarding tariffs and trade deals negotiated with EU and other countries. Also money saved from EU membership could be pumped into the economy in terms of R&D and grants for emerging industries. Let's face it if there weren't so many idiots in politics a deal would have been agreed by now and they still have the opportunity to vote for a possibly modified deal in a week or two.
I agree with this.
+1. The fact is many Politicians are just self serving bastards as evidenced those who ditched their parties recently and doubly evidence by the useless bunch of dictators in the EU.
Looking at out lot I cite Anna Soubry & Sarah Wollaston as being the most hypocritical Tory MP's ,(as were) both their constituencies voted leave I the 2016 Ref. Only Heidi Allen has any merit out of the three Tories as an independent MP - her South Cambs constituency voted leave 60:40, but there again the County voted LEAVE.

As for Labour, I hope and pray they will never form a Government again.

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Copperblue
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Re: IF there's another Brexit referendum...

Unread post by Copperblue » Sat Mar 02, 2019 1:11 pm

Classicrock wrote:
Sat Mar 02, 2019 10:32 am
CN211276 wrote:
Sat Mar 02, 2019 9:13 am
Copperblue wrote:
Sat Mar 02, 2019 12:32 am


Well this is a subjectivist forum....and that is your point of view. Pretty much every point raised I would disagree with based on what I have read, researched and experienced first hand with the companies I work with, so there is no real point in debating the points raised.

I would strongly argue that 16 year olds and above should have a vote on this subject for obvious reasons. The future belongs to them and the older generations have not exactly made much progress in things that matter - rather fucked it up in fact judging by our politicians and the rise of intolerance across society
+1
There should never have been a referendum in the first place. Cameron took a reckless gamble with the nations future because he was scared of losing votes to Ukip. Even if sense prevails and we remain, it has still been costly.
Fact is there was a referendum and the result can't be undone and has to be respected to at least a substantial degree. I think you have to draw a consistent line on who can vote and in law adults are 18 or over. Some people forget until early 70s this was 21. While there is some perception that 16 year olds are more responsible now and more clued up I doubt that is the case. Maybe more open to the untruths flying around online. Anyway leaving EU is primarily a political decision about controlling our own laws rather than economic. While some firms are in a panic those that have been geared up to trade outside the EU mostly are more relaxed about changes. There are always a group of people who are glass half empty and shout loudest. I think there is a silent majority that accept the vote and plenty companies that started preparing for exit a long way back. Businesses should be prepared for any unforeseen eventuality and this one has been pretty predictable for some time.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/10m- ... f0a080de9f

IMHO the vote was flawed, probably illegal.

There is a lot of evidence out there supporting systematic inference of a foreign government. This has also been corroborated by exposure of Russian payments to The Northern League in Italy, bank rolling their campaigns.

It’s disrespectful to patronise the youth but not unexpected. It seems that it is Brexiteers burying their heads in the sand.
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Re: IF there's another Brexit referendum...

Unread post by CN211276 » Sat Mar 02, 2019 1:14 pm

It has been established that the vote was illegal, but that has been swept under the carpet.
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