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One more tricky aspect. Hope my english will allow me to explain it right. You are living in the UK very well. You will live very well after the brexit one way or other, it’s sure. So you would still live very well when you would live worser than you could in optimal conditions. Anything happens, brexit or not, you will always arguing about it. I don’t think that either way the change would be so drastical, that it could justify any side. You won’t feel a few percent of missed GDP improvement. Maybe after a few decades it will be clear, but will never be absolute and undisputable.

There will be winners and losers, as always. But sometimes it is important to understand exactly who is going to win and who is going to lose...

It is their own fault (Brussels) they showed us no respect even took the piss, and yes Brits are different and can be eccentric, like all island nations. I repeat I joined the EEC, I voted for the EEC, I was happy with the EEC and then Brussels and the EU happened. I don't want to be part of it, they are waste of money arseholes. It is that that is behind all this, as soon as this happens in Europe - be it Spanish, French or German, be it Philip II, Louis XIV, Napoleon, or the Kaiser and Hitler or these Brussels arseholes we will appease and put up with it for while but it gets to the point we have to stand up to the arses, we are at another similar point now.

History should never be forgotten, it contains the pattern that creates the future.

Dr Bunsen Honeydew wrote: ↑Sun Jul 22, 2018 10:38 pm It is their own fault (Brussels) they showed us no respect even took the piss, and yes Brits are different and can be eccentric, like all island nations. I repeat I joined the EEC, I voted for the EEC, I was happy with the EEC and then Brussels and the EU happened. I don't want to be part of it, they are waste of money arseholes. It is that that is behind all this, as soon as this happens in Europe - be it Spanish, French or German, be it Philip II, Louis XIV, Napoleon, or the Kaiser and Hitler or these Brussels arseholes we will appease and put up with it for while but it gets to the point we have to stand up to the arses, we are at another similar point now.

History should never be forgotten, it contains the pattern that creates the future.

History can be an indicator but times change.....

Who/what is the real foe of democracy and the ability to work with dignity to earn a fair days pay for a fair days work?

The capatlist economy is proving to be unsustainable on so many levels and that is de-stabilising the political situation. Lower skilled jobs have become less stable (zero hours contracts and the disappearance of many traditional jobs) - which has affected normal working people across the western economy from Poland to the UK to the US.

This has given rise to current nationalism rising across Europe and the US. Be it “ Protect the Father Land” posters in Poland, UKIP and Brexit in the UK, 5 Star movement in Italy, Trump in the US.......etc etc

It’s providing a platform for the modern versions of Napoleon and Hitler.........

Steven Bannon is actively funding far right groups across Europe; Putin sees himself as a dictator that can change the world; Aaron Banks/ Rees Mog want the natural order in the UK to be restored before the Liberal movement messed things up - I’m not mentioning Turkey, Czech, Korea, Scotland () etc. Then there is Trump.

The EU is not perfect but it actually seems like a force of balance and the UK has prospered as a member in many areas including scientific research funding, environmental protection, education, workers rights, free trade, free movement, peace etc - things we now take for granted.

This is the response sent to those who signed the petition.

The Government has responded to the petition you signed
– “Rescind
Art.50 if Vote Leave has broken Electoral Laws regarding
2016 referendum”.

Government responded:

The British people voted to leave the EU and
the Government respects that decision. We have always been
clear that as a matter of policy our notification under
Article 50 will not be withdrawn.

The British people voted to leave the EU, and
it is the duty of the Government to deliver on their
instruction. There can be no attempt to stay in the EU.

The result of the referendum held on 23 June 2016 saw a
majority of people vote to leave the European Union. This
was the biggest democratic mandate for a course of action
ever directed at any UK Government. Following this,
Parliament authorised the Prime Minister to trigger Article
50, passing the EU (Notification of Withdrawal) Act.

In last year’s General Election, over 80% of people
then voted for parties committing to respecting the result
of the referendum. It was the stated policy of both major
parties that the decision of the people would be respected.
The Government is clear that it is now its duty to implement
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This was not a decision made after just a few weeks of
campaigning, but one that came after a debate that had taken
place both in Parliament and across the country for decades.


We are committed to making a success of the British
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As the Prime Minister has said: “This is about more
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Our focus is making a success of Brexit and attempting to
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It is the Government’s duty to deliver the will of the
people and reach a desirable final outcome.

Department for Exiting the European
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Click this link to view the response online:

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It ignores the title of the petition.

They are right in that article 50 cannot be rescinded. Also it has been pointed out that it would likely take 18 months to organise another referendum by which time we will have left. Fewer people are now deluding themselves we won't leave but are now clinging to being half in which I don't think the EU are in favour off. I see project fear has been up and running again - as if there would be a sudden wall put up between UK and EU. Millenium bug comes to mind. I thought that was and remember observing an ancient VHS from the early 80s only to watch it seamlessly change it's date to Jan 2000. How many billions wasted on that one?

and remember observing an ancient VHS from the early 80s only to watch it seamlessly change it's date to Jan 2000. How many billions wasted on that one?

As always, the plural of anecdote Is not data, but to counter with one of my own, I spent a lot of time before 2000 fixing software that certainly would have failed if left alone.

Lurcher300b wrote: ↑Thu Aug 02, 2018 2:39 pm

and remember observing an ancient VHS from the early 80s only to watch it seamlessly change it's date to Jan 2000. How many billions wasted on that one?

As always, the plural of anecdote Is not data, but to counter with one of my own, I spent a lot of time before 2000 fixing software that certainly would have failed if left alone.

I'm aware there was legacy software that would have failed but the IT industry would have sorted this without the government making such a ballyhoo and using lots of public money. Thing is we were told VHS recorders and other appliances would stop working and I can't recall any reports of issues.

but the IT industry would have sorted this without the government making such a ballyhoo

You have a lot more faith in the IT industry than I have.

Lurcher300b wrote: ↑Thu Aug 02, 2018 3:02 pm

but the IT industry would have sorted this without the government making such a ballyhoo

You have a lot more faith in the IT industry than I have.

Not a question of faith or not. They would have to sort it after the event in any case. Not the government's job apart from govt, NHS and LA IT systems. I don't think anyone was going to fix a VCR that failed to work on 1/1/2000 in any case - just bin it.