Page 3 of 7
Re: New Brexit Poll
Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 7:47 am
by Copperblue
The reality of how the UK is ruled is not the one peddled maliciously by Farage (who should know better) and BoJo and the Daily Heil. We aren’t ruled by Europe. We negotiate and our elected representatives (MEPs for legislation that goes through the European Parliament, ministers for legislation that goes through the Comitology with Scrutiny process) vote on each Regulation or Directive. Just like UK legislation, EU legislation is a political compromise, and the UK won more often than it lost.
We have also prospered as a nation under an umbrella of safety, free movement and trade and social diversity. All of this does not mean we have to be ruled and lose sovereignty. Quite the reverse, this strength will protect our sovereignty from the likes of Putin, Trump and the right wing monied elite in the UK (who actually really control the country and want Brexit to take away the few safe guards the EU provides for the average law abiding hard working person)
Re: New Brexit Poll
Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 7:58 am
by CN211276
Copperblue wrote: ↑Sun Jul 22, 2018 7:47 am
The reality of how the UK is ruled is not the one peddled maliciously by Farage (who should know better) and BoJo and the Daily Heil. We aren’t ruled by Europe. We negotiate and our elected representatives (MEPs for legislation that goes through the European Parliament, ministers for legislation that goes through the Comitology with Scrutiny process) vote on each Regulation or Directive. Just like UK legislation, EU legislation is a political compromise, and the UK won more often than it lost.
We have also prospered as a nation under an umbrella of safety, free movement and trade and social diversity. All of this does not mean we have to be ruled and lose sovereignty. Quite the reverse, this strength will protect our sovereignty from the likes of Putin, Trump and the right wing monied elite in the UK (who actually really control the country and want Brexit to take away the few safe guards the EU provides for the average law abiding hard working person)
Good point about the monied elite who control the tabloids. They were responsible for breaking the spending limit rules.
Re: New Brexit Poll
Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 8:10 am
by Classicrock
Cameron spent £7m on leaflets that didn't form part of the remain campaign official spending. I picked mine up, looked at it and then put it in the recycling bin. As for protection I gather you mean those that have made us a low wage low productivity economy with more expensive imported goods including food and clothes.
Re: New Brexit Poll
Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 8:23 am
by savvypaul
We have low productivity due to decades of complacency, under-investment, and poor political and business management. Low productivity was an issue long, long before East European citizens gained free movement. The latter has only highlighted the fundamental weaknesses that already existed...
Re: New Brexit Poll
Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 9:22 am
by Copperblue
Classicrock wrote: ↑Sun Jul 22, 2018 8:10 am
Cameron spent £7m on leaflets that didn't form part of the remain campaign official spending. I picked mine up, looked at it and then put it in the recycling bin. As for protection I gather you mean those that have made us a low wage low productivity economy with more expensive imported goods including food and clothes.
Protection in the sense of there is always greater strength in a union - if done correctly. Brexit is exactly what the hidden hand of the monied elite such as Aaron Banks want - to not be shackled by what they see as intrusive EU legislation and what in reality most people would view as decent rights. Bizarrely, destabilising the EU is exactly what Putin wants, hence the cited 11 meetings (that are known) between Banks and Russian Ambassadors.
Interestingly, the EU is in the early stages of developing legislation with teeth to really investigate the huge tax evasion that goes on - just as all the “money” came in to the leave campaign.......
£7M quid in leaflets is peanuts compared to what some respectable estimate the Banks’ / Russians etc really invested in the leave campaign to bamboozle the truth - up to 30 times that figure.
Economic productivity is a separate issue entirely as per Savvy comments
Re: New Brexit Poll
Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 10:08 am
by Dr Bunsen Honeydew
I see no other choice than an election in some form, and already right middle and left are positioning themselves for the creation of new voting blocks (note I don't say political parties).
Re: New Brexit Poll
Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 10:22 am
by Classicrock
There is no proof of spending other than the leave campaign figures. If you think Putin manipulated the result or any attempts to do so made any significant difference as to how people voted you are living in cloud cookoo land. People trying to discredit the vote frankly have lost the plot. More and more outlandish attempts to overturn the decision. There has been a notable trend away from incentivising workers for higher output in favour of minimum wage and zero hours contracts (cost cutting). Brought on by globalisation. Being in the EU hasn't protected anyone from these trends. The split in the vote according to opinion polls was pretty much the same at start of campaign and at voting day with margin for error meaning vote could have gone either way. So likely most like myself had already made up their minds.
Re: New Brexit Poll
Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 10:27 am
by Classicrock
Dr Bunsen Honeydew wrote: ↑Sun Jul 22, 2018 10:08 am
I see no other choice than an election in some form, and already right middle and left are positioning themselves for the creation of new voting blocks (note I don't say political parties).
Most people are sick to death of elections. You mean the nutters who play political games! There will never be a clear answer either way and a vast block who will feel cheated. It's a constitutional and political minefield.
Re: New Brexit Poll
Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 1:51 pm
by Copperblue
Classicrock wrote: ↑Sun Jul 22, 2018 10:22 am
There is no proof of spending other than the leave campaign figures. If you think Putin manipulated the result or any attempts to do so made any significant difference as to how people voted you are living in cloud cookoo land. People trying to discredit the vote frankly have lost the plot. More and more outlandish attempts to overturn the decision. There has been a notable trend away from incentivising workers for higher output in favour of minimum wage and zero hours contracts (cost cutting). Brought on by globalisation. Being in the EU hasn't protected anyone from these trends. The split in the vote according to opinion polls was pretty much the same at start of campaign and at voting day with margin for error meaning vote could have gone either way. So likely most like myself had already made up their minds.
Putin manipulated Brexit and Trump election - by how much is at present unspecified.
There is undisputed evidence of all those 10s of thousands of false social media accounts traced back to Russia which posted in favour of Brexit and Trump.
Hilary Clinton’s email has also been hacked - arrests have been made.
In this mix is Aaron Banks and Nigel Farage and somewhere in the mix Trump and his associates - all flowing back to Putin.
None of this is likely to be in The Daily Heil
Re: New Brexit Poll
Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 1:55 pm
by Copperblue
Dr Bunsen Honeydew wrote: ↑Sun Jul 22, 2018 10:08 am
I see no other choice than an election in some form, and already right middle and left are positioning themselves for the creation of new voting blocks (note I don't say political parties).
I agree. Election age should be 16 as well
We need a change and we need the youth to do it.