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Re: What have we lost?
Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 3:52 pm
by savvypaul
guydarryl wrote: ↑Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:35 pm
"Progress" has resulted in people having less time/freedom - discuss
We have the same amount of time - 24 hrs a day - but more opportunities.
Freedom is how we decide to use both of the above...
Re: What have we lost?
Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 4:00 pm
by savvypaul
ArseHats wrote: ↑Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:57 pm
joe wrote: ↑Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:38 pm
I think that the old rosy-coloured specs come into play a lot when people hark back to the 'good old days'. I used to have a tape of my mother and various aunts, recorded in the early 1970s, reminiscing about how wonderful everything was back in the 1930s. At one point, they talk about a neighbour whose husband would knock her about, get put in prison, come out and knock her about again, and another neighbour who couldn't afford shoes for her children. I'm sure some sense of community has gone since then, but so has a lot of bad stuff too.
Even my daughter has started complaining about 'kids today'!
Good post.
Additionally. I would imagine that incidents of casual sexism, racism, homophobia and the mistreatment of children have all reduced somewhat.
Good old days...? Depends who you were.
And your daughter is in good and long-standing company...
"The children now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise."
Socrates (c400BC)
A even 'gooder' post
Re: What have we lost?
Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 5:31 pm
by Lotus Seven S
Freedom is how we decide to use .....24 hours a day .... more opportunities
And that is the problem. Vi have the same attentions span but many more things are competing for it. And business has learned to use extraordinarily good stimulants to penetrate our mental fog. I actually don't see how we can use our freedom, when we are being bombarded by "choice". We become just like Pavlov's dogs salivating at each gaudy bangle.
And this means we must first regain our freedom, before we can use it. And I think that means we must reduce the number of opportunities we continually face.
Actually sit and do nothing for a while.
Turn off Facebook, Twitter, Notifications, App Store, Google, Spotify, Tidal, TV and Radio. Once this tsunami is stilled we can slowly empty our heads for sound-bites, political correctness, slogans and the post-hypnotic suggestion TO BUY MORE to relieve our collective fear, uncertainty and doubt.
Re: What have we lost?
Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 5:33 pm
by Ithilstone
ArseHats wrote: ↑Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:57 pm
And your daughter is in good and long-standing company...
"The children now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise."
Socrates (c400BC)
that's about it ;]]
Re: What have we lost?
Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 6:17 pm
by savvypaul
Lotus Seven S wrote: ↑Sat Jan 27, 2018 5:31 pm
Freedom is how we decide to use .....24 hours a day .... more opportunities
And that is the problem. Vi have the same attentions span but many more things are competing for it. And business has learned to use extraordinarily good stimulants to penetrate our mental fog. I actually don't see how we can use our freedom, when we are being bombarded by "choice". We become just like Pavlov's dogs salivating at each gaudy bangle.
Yes.
Lotus Seven S wrote: ↑Sat Jan 27, 2018 5:31 pm
Freedom is how we decide to use .....24 hours a day .... more opportunities
And this means we must first regain our freedom, before we can use it. And I think that means we must reduce the number of opportunities we continually face.
Actually sit and do nothing for a while.
Turn off Facebook, Twitter, Notifications, App Store, Google, Spotify, Tidal, TV and Radio. Once this tsunami is stilled we can slowly empty our heads for sound-bites, political correctness, slogans and the post-hypnotic suggestion TO BUY MORE to relieve our collective fear, uncertainty and doubt.
We have never lost our freedom, but our awareness...
Re: What have we lost?
Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 8:15 pm
by joe
This all seems a bit hysterical to me. Way back in 1836, John Stuart Mill was complaining that people's attention spans were becoming too short to appreciate 'serious' books. The same complaint was made after the arrival of cheap newspapers, then radio, then TV. As a nipper I was often bored shitless. I sat and did nothing for hours on end, apart from punching my brother every now and then. There wasn't any daytime television back then. Did it make me a better person in any way? Nah. I would have been much better off if I'd had the Internet, rather than reading the 1930s set of Arthur Mee's Children's Encyclopaedia for the nth time.
Re: What have we lost?
Posted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 10:49 am
by Lotus Seven S
We have never lost our freedom, but our awareness...
While in a sense I agree in another sense I don't.
Talking of awareness reminds me of "unawareness", and unawareness must mean unfreedom. We are always unaware of lots of things, and how do we go about becoming aware of what we are unaware?
It's like can we find, what we have lost?
We can always look where the light shines, but maybe what we have lost is in the darkest shadows, waiting for a Madeleine Cake, which may never turn up.
And I think this all boils down to pessimism v's optimism (where I'm the pessimist).
As a child playing X's & O's could be exciting - but then you find out there is a strategy, where you always can avoid losing. This awareness makes the game trivial and the old excitement can never be found again.
What we lose we can never get back.
But maybe we can find something new once in a while - like a new NVA amplifier.
Re: What have we lost?
Posted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 6:52 pm
by guydarryl
savvypaul wrote: ↑Sat Jan 27, 2018 3:52 pm
guydarryl wrote: ↑Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:35 pm
"Progress" has resulted in people having less time/freedom - discuss
We have the same amount of time - 24 hrs a day - but more opportunities.
Freedom is how we decide to use both of the above...
Same amount of time in the day, but for many poor buggers there is the need/obligation to work on Sunday. Although I suppose that is the "opportunity" to keep the wolves from the door for some.
Re: What have we lost?
Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 12:20 am
by savvypaul
Lotus Seven S wrote: ↑Sun Jan 28, 2018 10:49 am
We have never lost our freedom, but our awareness...
While in a sense I agree in another sense I don't.
Talking of awareness reminds me of "unawareness", and unawareness must mean unfreedom. We are always unaware of lots of things, and how do we go about becoming aware of what we are unaware?
It's like can we find, what we have lost?
We can always look where the light shines, but maybe what we have lost is in the darkest shadows, waiting for a Madeleine Cake, which may never turn up.
And I think this all boils down to pessimism v's optimism (where I'm the pessimist).
As a child playing X's & O's could be exciting - but then you find out there is a strategy, where you always can avoid losing. This awareness makes the game trivial and the old excitement can never be found again.
What we lose we can never get back.
But maybe we can find something new once in a while - like a new NVA amplifier.
Maybe you're not quite the pessimist that you imagine. Maybe you simply recognise that optimism is possible but not always easy?
Re: What have we lost?
Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 12:32 am
by savvypaul
guydarryl wrote: ↑Sun Jan 28, 2018 6:52 pm
savvypaul wrote: ↑Sat Jan 27, 2018 3:52 pm
guydarryl wrote: ↑Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:35 pm
"Progress" has resulted in people having less time/freedom - discuss
We have the same amount of time - 24 hrs a day - but more opportunities.
Freedom is how we decide to use both of the above...
Same amount of time in the day, but for many poor buggers there is the need/obligation to work on Sunday. Although I suppose that is the "opportunity" to keep the wolves from the door for some.
Yes, some things are a means to an end