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Daniel Quinn wrote: ↑Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:45 am All retired people will be dead when the effects of brexit kick in , they should therefore place an age limit on voting. Essentially they are votiing on a future britain they wont be part off.

So retired person of 65 might live to 95 and experience 30 years of Brexit while a younger person may pass away next year due to illness or accident and have one year of brexit. People of any age over 18 have as much right as any other to express their opinion. Truth is that Brexit or no Brexit may make no difference to most people. You are voting for the direction of the country not for individual loss or gain (I hope). Older heads are generally wiser due to past experience. For example most Momentum supporters won't remember the winter of discontent or IRA bombings (pretty relevant in understanding 'The Fossil').

It's a mute point , but the winter of discontent is in the past. Erm , spot the difference.

And public policy is made on acturials not anecdote.

Classicrock wrote: ↑Tue Mar 06, 2018 2:28 pm

Daniel Quinn wrote: ↑Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:45 am All retired people will be dead when the effects of brexit kick in , they should therefore place an age limit on voting. Essentially they are votiing on a future britain they wont be part off.

So retired person of 65 might live to 95 and experience 30 years of Brexit while a younger person may pass away next year due to illness or accident and have one year of brexit. People of any age over 18 have as much right as any other to express their opinion. Truth is that Brexit or no Brexit may make no difference to most people. You are voting for the direction of the country not for individual loss or gain (I hope). Older heads are generally wiser due to past experience. For example most Momentum supporters won't remember the winter of discontent or IRA bombings (pretty relevant in understanding 'The Fossil').

I retired last year at 58 and am far from dead The collapse of the pound following the outcome of the referendum must have cost me over a grand already

I remember the winter of content well, it was Thatcher's ticket to power. Things were so bad I voted Tory for the first and last time. That government had to go. Nothing has changed regarding terrorism, Islamic nutters have replaced the IRA.

Daniel Quinn wrote: ↑Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:08 pm It's a mute point

Is that the tip of a mute swan's beak?

Daniel Quinn wrote: ↑Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:08 pm It's a mute point , but the winter of discontent is in the past. Erm , spot the difference.

And public policy is made on acturials not anecdote.

It shows what you get when the Unions get a sniff of power.

Germany has strong unions, high productivity and a superior standard of living.

It shows what you get when unions, companies and governments work together for shared benefit...

Agreed, which didn't happen here because of the British Class war so the UK unions refused to co-operate, they treated it as class war and wanted to win, and that is still how they look at it. It happens less on the other side mostly as a reaction to the way they see it has gone in the historic past. Yes DQ seems to think history is meaningless, far from it, the idealised yoof behind Corbin are just like their parents, there is NO common sense in our social system. It will all end in tears again.

We are still stuck in *us and them* the Germans lost that with the wars, they are just *us* now. Look at how many posts here play the us v them game, people we hate, papers we hate, opinions we hate, there is no mutual respect to build a consensus on - Germany is ALL about consensus, business, politics. We had a chance to start it with proportional representation but daftly we voted against it.

Where companies and unions are entering into partnership arrangements, then we are seeing worthwhile improvements for both.

Coming back to Brexit, partnership working has often been championed in the UK by European (and Japanese) owned parent companies.

Competitiveness and innovation do not come from retreating inward...

They can do, that is what both Japan and Germany did after the war. They built from nothing, inward focus, most pulling together.

The stupid feckin British think they are world champions at everything, ego based bullshit "we won the war" the world owes us a living. Us - Workers unite "it is our turn now, lets go and kick the rich bastards".

Complacency was a big problem.

Industry failed to invest and innovate, management failed to introduce more progressive working practices (which would have benefited workers, too). trade union leaders were unable to control their shop stewards and governments (both Tory and Labour) made short term populist decisions that resulted in cycles of boom and bust.

After the austerity of the immediate post-war years, the 'general public' were enjoying a credit fuelled consumer binge...but most of the goods were manufactured overseas.