The major problem with modern capitalism

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

The problem is lies!!

Bullshit = reps and salesmen, marketing, advertising especially TV, industry experts and pundits, all round big heads and egotists.

The result in all industries is that crap sells because of the lies and reality and excellence fails because of ignorance.

The industrial revolution created the products (UK initiation) the marketing revolution (US initiated) created the lies delusions and crap.

Can you imagine any industry, profession or business who's whole basis of existence is lies. That is what the marketing industry is, if not down right lies then truth bent to be more useful.

We are in a new age, the age of information and personal enlightenment, you no longer have to be told what to buy. You can formulate an opinion and you can search for knowledge = the internet followed by personal experience.

The first rule in this new age - if you see a product heavily marketed, advertised and hyped then just presume it is overpriced and crap, and 90% of the time you will be right.

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

The reason I am chuntering is that I have been told by an "expert" that the most valuable thing I own is the name of the company, due to length of time and public exposure even in this what is now a small industry. The name is worth more than the designs can you believe WHY! because any crap can now be foisted on you using that name and marketing

BTW I am not selling, I was *approached*.

[Alfi]

Indeed Doc.. You have hit upon another serious issue with the UK in general, the wilful ignorance of the masses - many of whom are more interested in what's happening in the soaps rather than what's happening is society close to them and across the UK..

They see snippets of what the establishment and the Media want them to see at news time but if only they'd go digging a little further for the truth..

Collectively there's a lot of brains out there, but unadulterated bullshit baffles it.

Alfi

[Stemcor1990]

NVA has its reputation which creates a value for the brand. If I bought NVA, product quality would immediately fall through the floor and I would have to probably have to hire a few people to keep up with demand because I would not know how to run the business properly. If you change the values of the company then it becomes something else, possibly more profitable but not necessarily "better". A classic example being Leo Fender selling his business to CBS where the new owners used cheaper components and resulted in "Fender" Fenders becoming valuable instruments. The business then went through several peaks and troughs with the 1983-4 strats being the nadir (in my opinion). It's no suprise that component cost and quality control suffer during tough times but during the relatively good ones, how do you get potential purchasers into your shop ? Answer : the power of advertising and brand reputation. Apple has taken much of Sony's market for this reason.

The bottom line is caveat emptor. The Doc has a good point about the power of the internet. If a few people say product X is disappointing because of ....... then this will probably do significant damage to the brand. What we all need are sensibly priced, no-bull products. It might happen but if you are in marketing and you have to sell a freezer to an Eskimo then the temptation will be there to say that the freezer will do wonderful things for your life. Who is really interested in the fact that it keeps your food cold. It's not very sexy !

[Daniel Quinn]

Capitalism needs surplus value and in a country in which we pretty much have all we need , you have to create wants and the easiest way to create a desire is bullshit . Thats why bottles of coke , cars and clothes become lifestyle products which bestow upon the owner feelings of adequacy and superiority .

the expert who approached you is a fool . The name NVA [ I hesitate to call it a brand cause that is just marketing bullshit ] is worthless without the designs and the philosophical approach to making music . Sell the name to him ,re-name your company and see who does best , you or him

[kimangelis]

I grew up in a small Lancashire mill town called Accrington where resided the Karrimor factory. They started-off manufacturing cycle panniers, then moved into rucksacks, pioneering the first internal-framed rucksack. Unfortunately they went bust in the early 2000's because they simply didn't keep-up with cutting edge designs, nor move into new markets as did for example Berghaus, their main rival at the time.

The Karrimor brand was bought by Lonsdale Sports. No original products remain. I'm amazed that people can't see now what the Karrimor-branded goods are! Really really cheap, badly made, poor quality, awful materials, poorly performing crap... yet Joe Public merrily buys it thinking that because it's a'well-known brand', and they are getting quality goods at rock-bottom prices.

All very fine if all you are doing is donning your uber-cheapo walking shoes to wander about Keswick or Fort William on a wet Saturday afternoon.... But I recently came across a couple of women descending Stob Coire nan Lochan in reasonably wet conditions. One poor woman was skating about all over the place. Might as well have been wearing roller-skates. Her boots were Karrimor branded. But were nothing more that a pair of basic boots with porous uppers and a polyurethane sole that wouldn't stick to velcro let alone wet rock. I wrapped an old pair of climbing slings around each boot, so she was able to descend reasonably safely.

My point is... who is responsible for what is really a scam? Her for buying rubbish, the shop who sold her crap, or the manufacturer who is attempting to con the public that a 'well-know brand' is a guarantee of quality?

[Daniel Quinn]

Your argument is premised upon a view of Karrimoor that judging by thier website they do not agree with .

Is it not fairer to say that is adequately cheap equipment ?

As for your question , there is only one person responsible and that is the company .

You do of course highlight one of the major problems of capitalism , it breeds bullshit, dishonesty and deceit to such an extent is becomes part of the society we live in . That is why in 21st century Britain a lot of bollocks is talked about authenticity and authentic experiences .

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

Exacterleeee.......................!

Kids go around kicking each other as they see their fav footballers do, fall over and play hurt etc. Within the present version of capitalism people emulate the language and the essence of marketing in relationships, especially at work. They market themselves with bullshit and delusion to at least keep their jobs or especially to take any opportunity of promotion. Teenagers and young adults lie and market themselves to get relationships, and in the case of the male free sex!

Everything in life is now based on "don't sell the meat, sell the sizzle".

The world is turning to bullshit as the only reality - it is a very sad state of affairs.

[Macca]

Indeed Doc.. You have hit upon another serious issue with the UK in general, the wilful ignorance of the masses - i

Reminds me of Bevan's 'poverty of desire' speech.

personally I think the only problem we have is that it is not good enough for some people to let the 'masses' just get on with it. There is too much telling people what to do and how to lead their lives, what to eat, what exercise they should do, what religion they should believe in (the current trend seems to be to 'educate' them not to believe in any religion) and so forth.

Who cares if some people are taken in by 'marketing bullshit'? If that is not you then it is not your problem.

It is the curse of some smart people that it is not enough for them to be smart they have to go spreading it around and telling everyone else what they should or should not be doing as though this is somehow a worthwhile and important pursuit. It isn't.

[Daniel Quinn]

To each according to their needs , from each according to their abilities .