Tax

[Daniel Quinn]

Okay , Lydnsey . As I said i am not sure what point you are making as stated , but to respond to the individual disparate points you make .

There are 11/12 million more people now than in 1978 and 3 million more people over 65 .

I am not sure your private/public comparison is valid .What evidence do you have that the private sector produces more for less [ i will leave out better as that is subjective ] Additionally , the private sector creates value usually at the expense of the worker . This places a cost on the state via in and out of work benefits .


And as far as technology in health is concerned , precisely how is it possible for technology to make the health service cheaper . foetal heart monitors , mri's , transplants . cancer drugs . How do these result in anything but additional costs to the exchequer ? Additionally it now costs the state £600,000 to train each doctor .


As for cameron and being socialist , alas he is straddled with work benefit polices of the labour government he dare not touch yet .

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

It is all far to expensive to admin, far too complicated and defuse, and simply far too much.

The simplest and cheapest and fairest way to deal with it, is to make what you can self financing and the rest from an inflated sales tax and a compulsory National Insurance. Trouble is we would have to be out of any free trade areas in order to do it otherwise there would be a flood of personal imports.

Drop all capital gains tax and income tax and you would have a surging economy with international companies coming to work here, no brains would leave, high employment - win-win.

[Daniel Quinn]

Alas , we are were we are . It aint possible to start from scratch .

And I personally dislike purchase tax's as they are none progressive . It is swings and roundabout . It is essentially a bloody great con to increase personal allowances and then stick 2.5% on vat .

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

It is all smoke and mirrors DQ. If people really understood how much they were paying there would be riots. It is tax on tax on tax. Overall we lose 70 to 80% of our income to both local and national government.

We are taxed on what is left over after we are taxed and that is then taxed again - we are taxed to the grave!

[Daniel Quinn]

We start from different perspectives . You start from a individualist perspective that they are taking something off you , I start from a Marxist perspective that it was never yours in the first place , it belongs to society and what they allow you keep should be fair , reasonable and proportionate but best for all .


This stems from Marxism and the African concept of unbuntu. I am me because of all of you .

This is not to underplay the role individual ability , achievement , endeavour . skill or knowledge it is simply to place them in context . None of us can achieve anything without a stable society in which to do so and without each other we are all useless .

For instance a person could make mighty fine amplifiers but without an ordered , populated, educated and wealthy country , they would have no customers .

Wealth is primarily created by society . Societies of 63 million people need governance . The distribution of wealth created by individuals within a society is societies prerogative not the individuals .

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

Well my principle I wish to follow is that of the artisan. I get paid as to the quantity and quality of my work, I don't earn a salary. So IMO tax is simply theft.

The cost of maintaining this smoke and mirrors is enormous, getting rid of that would be the equiv of a 10% tax cut.

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

Artisans were the dominant producers of consumer products prior to the Industrial Revolution. According to classical economics theory, the division of labour occurs with internal market development (Adam Smith). However, according to economist John Hicks, merchants and artisans originated as servants to the rulers.

Those who owned their businesses were called masters, while the latter were the journeymen and apprentices. One misunderstanding many people have about this social group is that they picture them as "workers" in the modern sense: employed by someone. The most influential group among the artisans were the masters, the business owners. The owners enjoyed a higher social status in their communities.

[Daniel Quinn]

And that is an admirable perspective which does chime with marxism , who wanted us all to be fisherman in the morning , artisans in the afternoon and philosophers in the evening . Alas we are along way from such a simple idyllic life .

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

Well I have it apart from the fishing in the morning. I am the master, DJSR is the apprentice

[Welder]

http://www.theguardian.com/news/2015/fe ... ic-marxist

Tax, finance, yep, this thread is close enough.

A slightly strange writing style but a good summary of some of the often overlooked genius of Marx.