Is It Really About The Chip Set?

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Neonknight
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Is It Really About The Chip Set?

Unread post by Neonknight »

I had been waiting for Wireworld to release a new set of USB cables, and I finally got notice that they became available. So I installed new cabling this week and having been working with getting everything run in. I also decided to install a new set of Wireworld RCA cables on the DAC and did this at the same time. I have found with Wireworld cabling that it takes about 20 hours of run in to sound decent, and at the 70 hour mark things take a nice step forward and a total of 200 hours to fully realize its potential. At least that has been the history I have had with their cables in my system previously.

The DAC is an Audio Magic Kukama, which is based on a commercial board built by Texas Instruments for commercial radio use. The chip set is the Burr Brown PCM1704, and has a dual power supply, a custom output state with discrete transistors, and a circuit designed to address digital non-linearity events native to this chip set. I knew the designer and he is a smart fellow that is a commercial engineer and doesn't buy into much of the "audiophile" talk. So the circuit he designed to optimize the chip set is based on measurements and listening. My DAC is about 12 years old, and it has been back to him once for an update after he tweaked his circuit a little bit. Actually it went back for two updates, I liked one of them, the second one I did not so he reversed that one.

My DAC is 12 years old now, and its only capable of 24/96 conversion. It standard conversion rates are fine with me as I like to listen to a lot of modern folk artists and they can only afford to release their music on standard CD. Even with streaming off Qobuz I find it works well. What I have found is that the digital source component matters. When I first got the Kukama I had spent all of my audio kitty so I used a Phillips DVD player as a transport and it was surprisingly good. I tried a Toshiba which was an internet darling at the time, and it sounded terrible in comparison to the Phillips. This event and owning a few Phillips earphones went a long way to create a positive appreciation of the brand. Later I upgraded to a Enlightened Audio Designs T1000 transport and got a nice improvement. Finally I entered the world of computer playback and found that a laptop and a modest USB/SPDIF converter sounded worse than the T1000.

I eventually found that a Mac Mini with a PS Audio LANRover and a Singxer USB/SPDIF converter was the ticket to digital satisfaction. After a dalliance with a couple of other DACs I ended up returning to the Kukama as I could never get an equal to its sound quality. I was able to make a few improvements with the Intona Audio USB isolation device, and Wireworld Platinum Starlight USB cables, and the Wireworld Silver Eclipse 8 interconnects. The sound I get is tonally rich yet balanced, natural in timber, expansive in space, and great dynamic contrasts. I find everything about this combination as satisfying. This is done with a chip set that is obsolete and 12 years old.

Apparently there is a lot to digital playback other than a DAC conversion chip. I suspect we put far too much emphasis on what chip is being used. The designer of the DAC I use also states that the newest generation of OP Amps are excellent and he thinks they are on par with the discrete output stage he built. Actually I believe he has dallied with fitting in updated op-amps in classic DACs from companies like Accuphase and I believe Sony. All I know is that I listen to a lot of analog with some pretty decent tables and cartridges, and this digital system is still satisfying. That passes the litmus test for me. Oh and the Wireworld cabling is pretty nice, and the Intona device is worth spending money on. And this is with only about 30 hours on the new Wireworld cabling, its only going to get better from here.
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Wonfor14 (Sun Aug 08, 2021 7:11 pm)

antonio66
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Re: Is It Really About The Chip Set?

Unread post by antonio66 »

Nice write up on your digital set-up NK. There are still a few dac's on AliExpress that advertise the fact the 1704 chip is being used so it is certainly well regarded, although I think it is far more important how these different chips are implemented. It would be nice to hear the true difference a chip makes since I often read reviews on dac's that are using a not so well thought of chip, yet producing great sound.
I have to admit I've never heard of your dac (some research to be done later) and your transport is not the best known over here either. I would like to try a usb - spdif converter, I've looked on AE and they have some reasonable priced ones, but I do not know whether they would be good enough, here's one using Xmos 208 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3297812 ... 2e0euE18S1 and if you look further down the page you may see something similar which is an Amanero converter. Which Singxer model are you using? Anyway pleased you are enjoying the digital side of your system, and that it passes the 'litmus' test.

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Re: Is It Really About The Chip Set?

Unread post by r3xj0hn570n »

interesting. I'd been investigating what to do with my upstairs system, in which i use an Oppo BDP105. I'd always though the sound a little on sterile side, nothing i could put my finger on, just lacking a bit of 'life'. For it's balanced I-out DAC it uses a traditional 3 opamp layout, first 2 as current to voltage conversion for each phase, the last as a balanced to single ended converter. It has the usual caps in the feedback loop carry on. It then --horror-- pokes it though an electrolytic cap.

After investigating all the things that others do to this player and reading all of the monster DIYaudio thread on the player about all the bewindering mods, i decided on a minimal approach to start. I swapped out the elna electrolytic cap for a panasonic metalized polyprop (and adding a bit of carbon foam shielding over the dac) . Bingo, what a difference.

Sometimes the simplest of things can mess it all up.

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Re: Is It Really About The Chip Set?

Unread post by Neonknight »

@antonio66

The Singxer USB/SPDIF converter is several years old now, its the SU-1 as I recall. I believe there are the SU-2 and SU-6 out now. Since my DAC is limited to 24/96 there really is no reason to pursue any of the newer units, especially since I own this one already. The Kukama DAC only has coax digital in, so need a unit like the Singxer. When I first attempted all of this with just a Dell laptop I bought a SMSL unit for somewhere around $59 I believe, perhaps $89. The results were pretty unimpressive with the laptop feeding the DAC though the converter. In some ways I wish I had that unit back to see if there are any significant differences now that I have sorted out the computer, audio server software, and power cable for the DAC. Perhaps if I can locate one I will take the opportunity to do so. Why I should though, I don't think I can answer that except for my own curiosity. Understanding how much you need to spend to get a quality outboard converter is a good bit of info to know, and while reviewing info out there I found that audiosciencereview has measurements showing the SU-1 has an increased noise floor due to jitter that other converters such as the Gustard did not show. I am not sure if Gustard even makes a converter anymore, the last one I saw available was the U-16.

But since I need the converter for this DAC its really a moot point for me. What I have works, and its paid for, so I might as well stay the course.

@r3xj0hn570n

Interesting to hear about the Oppo. A friend of mine had one that he used as a stand alone player, and I always found it to be cold and clinical. Eventually he ended up getting a Musical Fidelity Tri-Vista DAC and used the Oppo as a streamer and transport, and had a nice sounding digital front end. It sounds like you have found another way of getting good sound out of it, and I hope it works well for you. They seem to be getting as rare as hens teeth these days and the prices on the used market are a bit silly. Hold onto that one!

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Re: Is It Really About The Chip Set?

Unread post by Fretless »

I have found that different DACs have different capabilities on USB and SPDIF inputs. The Teradak units use arrays of TDA1453 chips (the Chameleon has 16) and maxes out at 24bit/96KHz input. The USB input has priority over SPDIF and sounds noticeably better. On the other hand my Metrum Musette has 16bit R2R chips and an M2Tech USB board that is weaker-sounding than the SPDIF inputs.

Several folks here (including me) use the Oehlbach reclocker for USB and are very happy with it. Schiit make a USB-SPDIF interface, the Eitr, which has had good reviews.

So far I've not tried anything with an I2S input - although the Asus Tinkerboard can be rigged to output I2S via its HDMI section, I believe. Pure processing power is a major factor in network/streaming devices and my fanless Intel i7 PC (running under Volumio) really wipes the floor with lower-capacity units.

Just chucking in my 2 cents worth. :twocents-mytwocents:

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Re: Is It Really About The Chip Set?

Unread post by Nearlymusical »

Just to mention - I had an epiphany with the PS audio LAN rover - it takes the output from my mac mini through to a Chord MScaler and on to a Chord Hugo 2 - the key factor for me was having the best USB cable into the input side on the LAN rover, totally in contradiction to the advice from PS audio, for the record I use a Danacable truestream on the input and an Audioquest carbon on the output. FWIW also using dual NVA digital interconnects between MScaler and Hugo 2 :grin:
Aurender N100H > SoTM USB cable > Audio DG DI-20 (I2s out ) > Audioquest Carbon 48 HDMI cable > PS audio Directstream DAC > Cardas Golden Cross XLR > Modwright 36.5 Pre > Cardas Golden Cross XLR > PS Audio M1200 Monoblocks > Cardas Golden Cross Speaker Cable > Meadowlark Kestrel Hotrod speakers

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Re: Is It Really About The Chip Set?

Unread post by slinger »

You've also got to take into account how complex the internals of the new breed of chipsets, like the AK4497 and AK4499 are, so there can be multiple implementations of the same chip.
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Re: Is It Really About The Chip Set?

Unread post by Neonknight »

slinger wrote: Mon Aug 09, 2021 10:13 pm You've also got to take into account how complex the internals of the new breed of chipsets, like the AK4497 and AK4499 are, so there can be multiple implementations of the same chip.
I hear you regarding new chip sets, and that brings up another issue. Digital seems to keep moving forward with no plateau being reached. In other words generation and generation of digital comes out, and the older stuff becomes worth next to nothing. Certain brands and components might maintain a fair bit of value, but maybe 1 in a 100 really do? Even then they become worth 35% of their retail, and at that point why get rid of it? Take something like a $800 or $1200 SMSL, Gustard, or Topping and in 5 years it will be worth $200. At least with good analog gear it holds its value and has relevance in the market place.

Then you take a component like my Kukama, it really is worth very little due to its lack of USB input, yet for redbook CD its very good and I don't hear a modern chip set machine bettering it for 16/44.1 playback. So what is the advantage of buying the latest Topping or SMSL? I don't know of one, since most of my music is redbook, and even streaming Qobuz sounds respectable this way. If I knew I could equal it with another current generation machine then it would make sense to simplify things and have the ability to play with DSD files.

Digital is hard to figure out in terms of what works well and is reasonable to spend a good chunk of coin on. It seems like the only guarantee is that its going to follow a pretty steep depreciation schedule after a few years of being on the market. Although a DAC optimized for streaming services seems to offer a level of convenience that a machine such as mine does not, however many of these functions can also be taken care of by the music server program, in my case I have been using Audirvana. When I compare what I have got sound quality wise on digital versus my analog rigs there certainly are differences, but the comparison is favorable in terms of digital. Yes in most cases analog is better by a degree, but I have so much music on digital that is not available on vinyl that its really impossible for me to forgo the format.

In the end it is what it is, and in my case I think redbook CD can be quite nice.

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