Details

[Daniel Quinn]

Stu, the doc would be shaking his head and telling you to listen to the music.

[Geoff.R.G]

Stu, the doc would be shaking his head and telling you to listen to the music.

There is no "right" way to listen to music what matters is that you enjoy what you are hearing.

[CN211276]

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=49990&p=190675&hili ... al#p190675

Richard referred to 'musical information' which is possibly a better term than 'detail'.

[NSNO2021]

I crave dynamics over detail.

Maybe I'm a right brain listener (emotional half of the brain), whilst some people are left brain listeners (logical half)?

Many systems are relatively poor at the dynamics and the detail and focus and clarity aspects. I would describe these systems as shit - when they cost over £200. We can put aside these systems in the context of this forum.

Some systems EG SME with 12" arm and Koetsu cartridge are great at the detail whilst being disappointing at the dynamics.
With these I wonder if the apparent strength in detail is helped by the lack of dynamics. Because if the transient peaks aren't slapping you about the head and drawing your attention then the between transient details will get more of your attention.

It's like the youtube video of the music biz recording engineer that loved using huge amounts of compression so that he could hear "all the lovely details". Fucking plonker. Fucking wanker. Doesn't have a clue about producing recordings that are enjoyable to listen to. Loads of detail with something that's as flat as a witches tit makes for an annoyingly unenjoyable listening experience for me and quite a few others at least anyway. The left brain listeners might love it.

The best recordings and systems combine dynamics with clarity and detail and a neutral enough tonal balance.

There are tonal balance tricks that can be played that give the impression of more detail. Filter out the bass drum and bass guitar and the mind will focus on the remaining instruments and have the impression of greater detail. However there's a huge factor in that you've lost the "detail" of the bass drum sound and bass guitar sound. As well as losing the impact and drive of the track as well.

It takes a little bit of experience to recognise when dynamic compression or tonal balance tricks are being played to give faux detail. It can also take an A B bake-off to highlight it too.


The way I'd put it, is that the systems that I like the best and enjoy the most are the ones where it sounds like nothing is there between the recording and it being put into my room. In other words so that it sounds like the vocalist is standing in my room singing to me and the rest of the band are there too playing their instruments in my room.

For this illusion; dynamics are hugely important (to me). Pitch preservation is highly important too. Followed by detail, clarity and then tonal balance being important too. And spatial things like left to right and front to rear and maybe a bit of up and down positioning being of a bit of importance too.

[Geoff.R.G]

I crave dynamics over detail.

Good, because too many engineers love compressors

It's like the youtube video of the music biz recording engineer that loved using huge amounts of compression so that he could hear "all the lovely details". Fucking plonker. Fucking wanker. Doesn't have a clue about producing recordings that are enjoyable to listen to. Loads of detail with something that's as flat as a witches tit makes for an annoyingly unenjoyable listening experience for me and quite a few others at least anyway. The left brain listeners might love it.

I have already shared my opinion on compression, I'll not repeat it. Except to say that I don't like it.

[karatestu]

The last paragraph from the RD quote above

"My greatest hang-up is information retrieval - musical information, especially dynamic separation. I will always go for information even at the expense of upsetting the "make everything bounce and swing with the tempo" brigade. My other priority, which seems to be out of favour at the moment, is neutrality, or as I prefer to call it, lack of the irritation factor."

Sums it up perfectly for me. More musical information that retains it's dynamics and lack of irritation can be obtained by simplifying things, removing as many components as possible, paying attention to the little things that can make a big difference (speaker cabinet shape for example) etc.

That previously hidden detail is the music. Being able to hear only part of what is on a record makes no sense to me. It is often that last bit of low level information that can turn a track that you previously thought average in to a masterpiece. If you went to a concert and for whatever reason the backing singers or percussionist couldn't be heard properly in loud passages I would be pretty pissed off (and I think they would too). And yes you can have dynamics and neutrality at the same time.

[CN211276]

That previously hidden detail is the music. Being able to hear only part of what is on a record makes no sense to me. It is often that last bit of low level information that can turn a track that you previously thought average in to a masterpiece. If you went to a concert and for whatever reason the backing singers or percussionist couldn't be heard properly in loud passages I would be pretty pissed off (and I think they would too). And yes you can have dynamics and neutrality at the same time.

+1
There need not be trade offs between musical information, dynamics and an even frequency response.

[Lindsayt]

+1
There need not be trade offs between musical information, dynamics and an even frequency response.

The biggest trade of is in speaker size. Woofer size. If you want dynamics and an even frequency response.
It's a trade-off that so many people are not prepared to make. Which is fine. It's their life and their house.

[Vinyl-ant]

What i have tried to achieve with the things i have built is not detail, dynamics, ect ect, it is the separation of the instruments, voices, noises, whatever.

Personally, i find that i want to be able to focus on a 'thing' that is there, and immediately be able to follow it, then focus on something else, and be able to follow that. I want to have the capacity to let it all wash over as a cohesive whole, but also present things in their own space so when some fabulous cymbal work or something just appears in the soundstage, it is there and complete and not smeared by the trumpet next to it.

This is not at all easy to achieve

There are layers and layers of things going on in every recording that can just bleed into each other, and i dont want the bleeding, i want a clarity not a slight mushiness. There is a big difference between clarity and detail, i sometimes find detail artificial, as if the spotlight has been shone on one thing to the detriment of another. Clarity in my view gives everything equal exposure.

But thats just me, and if i dont get what i want i just have a good think and make a new version of whatever. I dont throw money at a sound i dont like, i cant afford to, i fall back into engineering mode and try to work out why, and correct the percieved problem.

Also bear in mind that i am mainly referring to analogue, i dont really give a toss about digital, im happy enough with it, its not my main source.
I will quite happily piss about with a reel to reel or a tt for however long it takes to get it right, digital is what it is, i dont particularly mind if its not perfect

[SteveTheShadow]

I’m more of a tone freak than a detail hound. To me, good tone is everything and good tone comes from neutrality. Realistic dynamics are completely impossible to achieve in a home system, so I ditched that target and set about creating an all-music system. I wanted to be able to play anything, from any era from the acoustic, electric, magnetic and digital periods and be able to enjoy it for what it is, without irritation rearing its head.
It’s taken me nearly 50 years to achieve it and finally I’ve done it, using the unlikely combination of an ultra low power, single-ended direct heated triode amplifier and a 100dB efficient, single full range driver, speaker system. With that little lot, I’ve found myself able to play anything from acoustic era Caruso and early electric era Louis Armstrong Hot Five, all the way to big production Mahler with Simon Rattle, and all with equal enjoyment.
Yes, there isn't the raw power coming from the amplifier to achieve seismic Mahlerian musical events, but everything remains solidly anchored, nothing is obscured and the majesty of Mahler can be appreciated. Small room and big, efficient speakers mean the amp is putting out milliwatts most of the time, and with so little power available, every undistorted milliwatt counts.