Logic DM101 - a new beginning

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Fretless
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Re: Logic DM101 - a new beginning

Unread post by Fretless »

Well, true to form, I couldn't wait to fire up the Logic AND I had a free evening, so ...

Firstly dismount the P77 from the Debut, then swap places for the DM101 - which sits nicely on the shelf as I hoped it would. Putting the cartridge onto the Syrinx arm was a careful business as the wires are hair-thin and looked like they could easily break. But it worked.

Using an alignment protractor that came free on the cover of 'HiFi Review' in 1987 and a stylus balance that also was a giveaway from another magazine of the same era which uses old 1p coins as weights; cartridge installation is completed, now the rest.

The DM101 has a suspended chassis that rests on a large central spring and is levelled by 3 sets of adjustable springs around the platter and arm. Despite the decades of unuse, the springs still seem to be fairly healthy but it did take a couple of attempts to raise and balance the platter.
I decided to use the same rubber mat and record-clamp from the Debut and needed to adjust the Logic for the additional mass.

Finally, time to put a record on and, yes, there is music. Of a sort.
One channel was rather muted - fiddling with the interconnect lead gave the impression that there may be a slight break in there somewhere. At one point my fettling provided a solid stereo image so I left it as it was.

The overall sound was, however, a bit dull and tired. I thought that I had been better off with the breezy Debut, but during the second album (David Sylvian's 'Brilliant Trees') a sense of vitality and dynamism began to surface. Just took a while for the connection to run in a bit.

Then things started to shine and the Logic DM101 revealed why it was such a highly-regarded TT back in the days of yore. Rock-solid, finesse of detail, smooth but vivid.

Leaving it to settle overnight and I'll have another play around in the morning. A livelier cartridge should bring a bit more sparkle and that i/c lead needs looking at - but The Beast is loose again!

Feels good to have it back. :guiness;

Upstairs:
Vinyl
Pro-Ject 1.2 + Grado Sig Jr + Cambridge Alva Duo
DigiVolumio PC + Kiss DP-500 + Sabaj A20d
NVA: P50sa - Cube2 - SSP - LS6+ Sabaj A10a (x2)
Downstairs:
Vinyl
Logic DM101 + Syrinx LE1 + Grado Sig MCX
DigiDenafrips Ares II + Volumio PC + Cambridge CXC
NVA: P50 - BMU+ Aiyima A07 MAX (x2) + Arcam One
HP: HifiBerry Digi+ PRO + Sabaj A10d
Office:
Allo DigiOne SIG + SMSL M300se + Douk G4 (x2)
Mission 760 + Monolith THX AAA 887
Headphones: German Maestro & AudioQuest

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Re: Logic DM101 - a new beginning

Unread post by antonio66 »

Well done Fretless, I read good reports about that new line of Grado cartridges a little while back, even linked to them when someone was asking about a new cartridge on one of the forums. Lets hope your Green is a good match and you like it.
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Fretless (Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:22 am)

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Re: Logic DM101 - a new beginning

Unread post by Fretless »

Image

After taking this photo I cleaned around the arm support to get some of the dust away. Also spotted that the front edge of the plinth needs a little camouflage treatment with a black permanent marker.

Just aligned the chassis (again), re-checked the tracking weight and given the i/c plugs a thorough clean, they were very grimy. That seems to have sorted out the connection trouble from yesterday evening.

Damn and hell - this deck sounds glorious, especially with Sylvian's monumental ambient delicacy of 'Gone to Earth'. Now there is real weight and presence, a solidity to the soundstage coupled with the idea of effortless presentation that the budget Pro-Ject simply could not achieve.

Next up: The anti-skate bias. There is an old 'Hifi For Pleasure Stereo Test Disc' from 1979 still lying around. Could be fun running through that.

:dance:
These users thanked the author Fretless for the post (total 5):
Latteman (Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:25 am) • savvypaul (Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:11 am) • CycleCoach (Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:46 pm) • antonio66 (Fri Jun 11, 2021 11:42 pm) • slinger (Sat Jun 12, 2021 5:52 pm)

Upstairs:
Vinyl
Pro-Ject 1.2 + Grado Sig Jr + Cambridge Alva Duo
DigiVolumio PC + Kiss DP-500 + Sabaj A20d
NVA: P50sa - Cube2 - SSP - LS6+ Sabaj A10a (x2)
Downstairs:
Vinyl
Logic DM101 + Syrinx LE1 + Grado Sig MCX
DigiDenafrips Ares II + Volumio PC + Cambridge CXC
NVA: P50 - BMU+ Aiyima A07 MAX (x2) + Arcam One
HP: HifiBerry Digi+ PRO + Sabaj A10d
Office:
Allo DigiOne SIG + SMSL M300se + Douk G4 (x2)
Mission 760 + Monolith THX AAA 887
Headphones: German Maestro & AudioQuest

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Re: Logic DM101 - a new beginning

Unread post by Fretless »

Grado Green is in. :dance:

More later ....

Upstairs:
Vinyl
Pro-Ject 1.2 + Grado Sig Jr + Cambridge Alva Duo
DigiVolumio PC + Kiss DP-500 + Sabaj A20d
NVA: P50sa - Cube2 - SSP - LS6+ Sabaj A10a (x2)
Downstairs:
Vinyl
Logic DM101 + Syrinx LE1 + Grado Sig MCX
DigiDenafrips Ares II + Volumio PC + Cambridge CXC
NVA: P50 - BMU+ Aiyima A07 MAX (x2) + Arcam One
HP: HifiBerry Digi+ PRO + Sabaj A10d
Office:
Allo DigiOne SIG + SMSL M300se + Douk G4 (x2)
Mission 760 + Monolith THX AAA 887
Headphones: German Maestro & AudioQuest

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Re: Logic DM101 - a new beginning

Unread post by Fretless »

With the Logic DM101 sitting in the system, mended, cleaned, set-up and with a sparkling new cartridge, I am transported back over 30 years to when my music room was the top floor of a house next to Selby Abbey and CD's were still a far-flung future.

Although - I don't remember this same installation sounding this good back then. Pondering on that I realised that I have learnt a few things along the way and there are a couple of small, but important changes in the signal chain.

I bought the Logic TT in about 1984, along with the original model Arcam One speakers and then the NVA pre-power combo - later augmented by the external PSU for the phono section. By 1988 I was already moving towards CD, so the turntable has actually had relatively lttle usage. What I did not understand back then was the importance of good cabling. The NVA SC remained as the pre-power link right up to about 2010, when my interest in hifi (which had waned) picked up again.

Recent acquisitions have freed up the NVA SSP mk2 interconnects from my main digital rig and so those are now in use in the vintage vinyl set - and what a huge difference that makes! In the years when NVA appeared to have sunk without trace, I also looked for a loudspeaker cable - having used 2.5mm solid-core mains installation wire quite successfully for a while (cheap too!). Knowing that the NVA poweramp had specific capacitance issues, I emailed Supra in Sweden asking if they had a speaker wire that was a match - yes they did: the Supra Classic 4.0 with silver-plated copper strands. Got lengths of that and it works just perfectly with the system.

As a note, I will state that RD (after NVA later restarted) instigated a policy that NVA amplifiers will lose warranty cover should any other speaker cable be used other than NVA's own.

I had tried, in a spate of utter foolishness, 200-strand Monster Cable which the amp hated. You could tell because the case under the output transformers got hot - when NVA amps are renowned for getting lukewarm at the most. Sounded crap too.

So the cabling is better than it was back in Selby. As is my understanding of the how's and why's of audio apparatus, and most especially the importance of musicality. Years of listening and striving to get digital audio setups sounding as 'analogue' as possible have trained my ears to pick up on factors like depth, dynamics, detail etc. and so the reacquaintance with 'the real thing' has come as something of a shock and a revelation.

Just wanted to get that off my chest. :whistle:

Upstairs:
Vinyl
Pro-Ject 1.2 + Grado Sig Jr + Cambridge Alva Duo
DigiVolumio PC + Kiss DP-500 + Sabaj A20d
NVA: P50sa - Cube2 - SSP - LS6+ Sabaj A10a (x2)
Downstairs:
Vinyl
Logic DM101 + Syrinx LE1 + Grado Sig MCX
DigiDenafrips Ares II + Volumio PC + Cambridge CXC
NVA: P50 - BMU+ Aiyima A07 MAX (x2) + Arcam One
HP: HifiBerry Digi+ PRO + Sabaj A10d
Office:
Allo DigiOne SIG + SMSL M300se + Douk G4 (x2)
Mission 760 + Monolith THX AAA 887
Headphones: German Maestro & AudioQuest

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Re: Logic DM101 - a new beginning

Unread post by Daniel Quinn »

I use supra 6.0 as my speaker cable .

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Re: Logic DM101 - a new beginning

Unread post by CN211276 »

Pleased you are delighted about your return to vinyl. I would be interested in your thoughts on how digital recordings sound compared to analogue via vinyl. I stopped buying vinyl in the mid 80s and do not have much which was digitally recorded via this medium. In my opinion sample rates of 705 kHz + combine the best of analogue and digital, but this of course concerns play back, not recording. To my ears albums which were recorded by analogue in most cases sound better than digital recordings, especially when remastered. There seems to be a greater sense of emotion and warmth.The quality of the music is not the only reason for my devotion to the classic rock era, the recording process also has a part to play. I think this is a reason why I prefer the 70s Rush albums to their later ones, which also contain top quality matergial. During my guided tour of the Rock n Roll Museum in Dublin I was informed that many bands were unhappy about the transition to digital recording because they felt something was lost.
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Re: Logic DM101 - a new beginning

Unread post by Neonknight »

I am glad to hear you are getting along with the Logic table and that your monies have been invested well for a restoration. I have heard positive things about the latest generation of Grado cartridges, but I have yet to have a chance to hear them. I was not terribly fond of the previous generation one, but people tell me these new ones are more extended in the top end and not syrupy sounding like the older cartridges.

Linn did nail one concept though, and that is invest in the table, then the arm, finally the cartridge. A top flight table and arm will get the sound more fundamentally correct than a high dollar cartridge on a table with fundamental faults or limitations. Your Logic story seems to be following those lines also.

enjoy your old friend, I am sure it appreciates being the star of the stage in the system again and no longer banished to some dusty and lonely corner of the house.
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Fretless (Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:10 am)

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Re: Logic DM101 - a new beginning

Unread post by Daniel Quinn »

Linn table first is in my opinion ,absurd.

A table only as to spin the disk at 33.3 . There are many ways of doing this all equally as good which is why Linn were lying.

Imagine the marketing men 'what you want us to convince people springs in comprehension and a rubber band is better than any other propulsion method, I see'

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Re: Logic DM101 - a new beginning

Unread post by Fretless »

CN211276 wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:25 pm Pleased you are delighted about your return to vinyl. I would be interested in your thoughts on how digital recordings sound compared to analogue via vinyl. I stopped buying vinyl in the mid 80s and do not have much which was digitally recorded via this medium. In my opinion sample rates of 705 kHz + combine the best of analogue and digital, but this of course concerns play back, not recording. To my ears albums which were recorded by analogue in most cases sound better than digital recordings, especially when remastered. There seems to be a greater sense of emotion and warmth.The quality of the music is not the only reason for my devotion to the classic rock era, the recording process also has a part to play. I think this is a reason why I prefer the 70s Rush albums to their later ones, which also contain top quality material. During my guided tour of the Rock n Roll Museum in Dublin I was informed that many bands were unhappy about the transition to digital recording because they felt something was lost.
Just made a vinyl rip of Japan's 'Tin Drum' (original 80's copy - an album I'm playing a lot at the moment) and done a direct A/B of the 24/96 WAV rip against a 21st-century CD remaster (16/44.1 WAV via EAC).
The CD is more 'hifi', clearer, sharper space and definition, more punch - at the cost of sounding bright, edgy and sterile. The LP rip is more organic, integrated and gets the foot tapping. The roundness of the vinyl sound invites you to enter and enjoy the music. The digitally-processed version insists 'Listen to me and be impressed!'. Yes, there is more detail and you can analytically dissect the mix more easily - but it's less fun to listen to.

I have heard ultra-hi-res DSD recordings of Classical music (orchestras and small ensembles) direct from the mixing desk in a mastering studio and that was incredible, and I had a borrowed Mark Levinson CD-based system for a while, but I couldn't stand the cold sterility of the sound.

As for Rush - I have several versions of some albums. 'Power Windows' (a digital recording, I think) on both LP and CD-remaster. '2112' with the DVDA 24/96 version. And the latest set of 40th anniversary releases of 'Hemispheres', 'Farewell to Kings' and 'Permanent Waves'.

The DVDA transfer of 2112 is terrific and there is an edition of 'Moving Pictures' in this format which I would love to hear, I am really looking forward to the 40th anniversary version of that. I had all the Rush LP's from 'Farewell to Kings' up to 'Power Windows', if Dr. Who drops by in the Tardis then I will go back to visit myself in about 1980, give myself a good kicking and tell myself - "Whatever you do, NEVER get rid of your LP's!".

:violence-stickwhack:
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CycleCoach (Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:45 am)

Upstairs:
Vinyl
Pro-Ject 1.2 + Grado Sig Jr + Cambridge Alva Duo
DigiVolumio PC + Kiss DP-500 + Sabaj A20d
NVA: P50sa - Cube2 - SSP - LS6+ Sabaj A10a (x2)
Downstairs:
Vinyl
Logic DM101 + Syrinx LE1 + Grado Sig MCX
DigiDenafrips Ares II + Volumio PC + Cambridge CXC
NVA: P50 - BMU+ Aiyima A07 MAX (x2) + Arcam One
HP: HifiBerry Digi+ PRO + Sabaj A10d
Office:
Allo DigiOne SIG + SMSL M300se + Douk G4 (x2)
Mission 760 + Monolith THX AAA 887
Headphones: German Maestro & AudioQuest

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