Cartridge for Pro-Ject Debut II

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Fretless
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Cartridge for Pro-Ject Debut II

Unread post by Fretless »

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Re-entering the vinyl arena after a 30-year absence is causing me a few headaches as ancient history is consulted and deeply-buried experiences slowly resurface.

Just remembered that I should check the tracking-weight of my A&R P77Mg and found it to be way above the recommended 1.8g. Now corrected. Also gave the stylus a careful clean and this seems to have put a bit more sparkle into the sound.

The Project Debut 2 is a no-frills, belt-driven TT and is fine for current needs. The NVA Phono circuit is, I presume, relatively unchanged throughout the years and so I am wondering if the 35-year-old cartridge is due for renewal (styli are impossible to find). Seeing the ProJect turntables are optimised for Ortofon cartridges I am looking at their 2M series and then the Red, Blue and Bronze models. Other choices could be a Grado Prestige Silver or an Audio-Technica VM540ML.

What I want is a general-purpose MM unit that gives a clear, dynamic sound without being too bright - and that interacts well with the Debut and NVA system.

Any recommendations from the vinyl experts out there?

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Re: Cartridge for Pro-Ject Debut II

Unread post by artsenna »

I am no expert. Have a very modest Project RPM4 from almost 20 years ago, which i only ever dust off once in a blue moon to play. The one thing i learnt (the hard way), is I believe the Project arms need a cartridge with compliance of circa 20.
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Fretless (Sun Apr 11, 2021 7:25 am)
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Re: Cartridge for Pro-Ject Debut II

Unread post by slinger »

As far as I can remember they came fitted with a 2M Red, if you step up to the Blue you're approaching the cost of the whole turntable in used condition.
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Fretless (Sun Apr 11, 2021 7:25 am)
Amps - NVA P50, AP30, A40, Stanislav Palo Tube Headphone Amp BB 85
Speakers - Monitor Audio Silver RX2
Cables - NVA LS1+LS3, SSC, Gotham S/PDIF, IBRA Optical
Digital - NAD C516BEE, SONY ST-SDB900 DAB TUNER, TEAC UD-H01 DAC
Analogue - Pro-Ject Debut Carbon Esprit SB, Graham Slee Gram Amp 2 Phono
Cans - Grado SR80, ATH-M50X

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Re: Cartridge for Pro-Ject Debut II

Unread post by slinger »

slinger wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 3:49 pm As far as I can remember they came fitted with a 2M Red, if you step up to the Blue you're approaching the cost of the whole turntable in used condition.
{EDIT}
Or it might have been an OMB 5E :roll:
Amps - NVA P50, AP30, A40, Stanislav Palo Tube Headphone Amp BB 85
Speakers - Monitor Audio Silver RX2
Cables - NVA LS1+LS3, SSC, Gotham S/PDIF, IBRA Optical
Digital - NAD C516BEE, SONY ST-SDB900 DAB TUNER, TEAC UD-H01 DAC
Analogue - Pro-Ject Debut Carbon Esprit SB, Graham Slee Gram Amp 2 Phono
Cans - Grado SR80, ATH-M50X

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Re: Cartridge for Pro-Ject Debut II

Unread post by Neonknight »

I don't think the Ortofon 2M series is a significant advancement over their previous cartridges. Personally, I think you would get better value buying an OM series cartridge like the 20 or 30.

Other cartridges I would consider is Nagaoka or Excel. In the US LP Gear had a series of cartridges called VESSEL that are custom builds by Excel and they sound very nice. Finally, perhaps a high output moving coil like a Denon DL110 is worth considering.
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Re: Cartridge for Pro-Ject Debut II

Unread post by CN211276 »

I have a Denon DL 110 which was a big step up from the Rega cartridge it replaced. The on line advice was that it was a good match for my original Rega 3 arm. Cost me £50 new twelve years ago. I think cartridge prices have gone through the roof since. :grin:
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Fretless (Sun Apr 11, 2021 7:25 am)
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Re: Cartridge for Pro-Ject Debut II

Unread post by slinger »

An Ortofon OM30 retails at around £240.00, which is more than the price of the turntable these days. An OM 20 will cost roughly the same as the turntable. You can put lipstick on a pig... :mrgreen:

If you just want a bog-standard cart to play vinyl once in a while I wouldn't be looking further than the 2M Red or maybe an OM10, both of which are the carts Pro-ject themselves choose to partner their lower-end TTs. Once you get over the £200-£250 mark you might as well start looking around for a new turntable.
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TheMarlin (Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:25 am) • Fretless (Sun Apr 11, 2021 7:26 am)
Amps - NVA P50, AP30, A40, Stanislav Palo Tube Headphone Amp BB 85
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Cables - NVA LS1+LS3, SSC, Gotham S/PDIF, IBRA Optical
Digital - NAD C516BEE, SONY ST-SDB900 DAB TUNER, TEAC UD-H01 DAC
Analogue - Pro-Ject Debut Carbon Esprit SB, Graham Slee Gram Amp 2 Phono
Cans - Grado SR80, ATH-M50X

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Re: Cartridge for Pro-Ject Debut II

Unread post by artsenna »

I tried the AT95E and also the DL110 (both of which i still own near new packed somewhere) on my RPM4 and ended up sticking the supplied Ortofon 510mk2 (what Project used to fit back then) back on the arm. Should have gone higher up the 500 series.

I understood that these arms need higher compliance carts. I would agree with Slinger and wouldn't venture too far from the Ortoron carts that Project themselves use.
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Fretless (Sun Apr 11, 2021 7:26 am)
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Re: Cartridge for Pro-Ject Debut II

Unread post by TheMarlin »

You can get a 2M Blue stylus for about £100, it’s better than the red, and will pop directly on the 2M Red body. Personally, I wasn’t a fan of this cart.

If you want bang for your buck, the Nagoaka MP110 is a fabulous little cart, excellent detail, very musical. I have used a few different models, and currently use the MP500.

If you want an even better deal, look for a Goldring Elektra. You can find a tidy one for well under £50 used. The Goldring Elektra wasn’t made by Goldring, it was actually designed by Nagoaka for Goldring, and you can really hear the family lineage. It’s close in sound to the MP110, but unlike a lot of Nagoaka carts, a used bargain.

Cheaper still, you can pick up a Goldring Elan for less again. Like the 2M Red/Blue, which share the same body, but different stylus, the Goldring Elektra and Elan have the exact same body, just different stylus, the Elan has a conical stylus, the Elektra elliptical.

Honestly, I have a Project spare in my garage, I didn’t get on with it well. I would suggest you not spend much more on a cart for it, and instead sell it, and put the money into a different deck. Even a humble RP2/Nad533 (£100 used) is a better built deck, sounds decent, and a fab modding platform should you want to do a few simple upgrades (there are a few simple mods I highly recommend, after which, law of diminishing returns sets in), but there are many fantastic decks out there on the used market for £200-£300

I have a spare Elan cart/stylus you can have for postage money. You can get an elliptical stylus for it (3rd party) new for £30 if you wanted. They sound great.

Cheapest upgrade ever ;)
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Fretless (Sun Apr 11, 2021 7:26 am)
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Re: Cartridge for Pro-Ject Debut II

Unread post by Fretless »

Thanks to all for the informative comments, I'm a bit clearer now as to possibilities..

Looks like I shouldn't treat the Debut as anything more than a (good) budget TT and keep my cartridge options in the lower end of the spectrum. The most obvious starting point is the Ortofon 2M Red, although I'm intrigued by both the Goldring Elan and Nagaoka MP-110, both of which I can find here in Holland.

Very grateful for your collective wisdom - time for a ponder. :grin:
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slinger (Sun Apr 11, 2021 2:55 pm)

Upstairs:
Vinyl
Pro-Ject 1.2 + Grado Sig Jr + Cambridge Alva Duo
DigiVolumio PC + Kiss DP-500 + Sabaj A20d
NVA: P50sa - Cube2 - SSP - LS6+ Sabaj A10a (x2)
Downstairs:
Vinyl
Logic DM101 + Syrinx LE1 + Grado Sig MCX
DigiDenafrips Ares II + Volumio PC + Cambridge CXC
NVA: P50 - BMU+ Aiyima A07 MAX (x2) + Arcam One
HP: HifiBerry Digi+ PRO + Sabaj A10d
Office:
Allo DigiOne SIG + SMSL M300se + Douk G4 (x2)
Mission 760 + Monolith THX AAA 887
Headphones: German Maestro, Monolith & AQ

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