New Dac

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Fretless
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Re: New Dac

Unread post by Fretless »

Neonknight wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 5:48 pm @fretless

Sure I will give Volumino a trial. Are you saying you are able to upsample 16/44.1 to DSD 256? That would be awesome if possible, as I cannot do that in Audirvana. When I had my Kukama hooked up I would use Pure Music, however that program never would interface with Qobuz, and had no upsampling options. Very nice sound in terms of redbook cd playback though, but it was unstable as heck and would shut down if I let it idle for awhile. I have hooked my Kukama back into the system while using Audirvana and not achieved the same sound quality, so I wonder if its a limitation in the music program.

A basic install of Volumino looks to be affordable, at least on a yearly fee of roughly $50 USD, while the purchase price is equal or more expensive than Roon. At least that is how I read it.
Volumio is free to use - there is a paid version which is necessary for Qobuz/Tidal access. DSD can be streamed in Native mode and maximum upsampling for PCM is 32bit/768KHz.

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Re: New Dac

Unread post by Neonknight »

So as an update, I did download Roon this evening. I then configured it to upsample to DSD 256 . It worked with no issues like I had in Audirvana. A success!

But with that being said. I like the sound of my redbook discs upsampled to PCM 352.6 better than to DSD 256. I have JBL 4365 speakers which are large format horns, along with SS amplification. The music in DSD 256 had a hardness that was just a touch too evident. When in PCM 352.6 the sound was a bit more refined and not as in your face. I didn't lose spatial characteristics, it just backed off the immediacy a tad. So far this is the best combination for me.

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Re: New Dac

Unread post by Neonknight »

Sorry to take up so much room posting back to back into this thread. But after a lot of listening late in the evening, I started to form the opinion that how I have this digital system set up does something to the music, everything becomes tonally grey. Now it might be related to the way I do amplification and speakers, as the system can be quite colorless with vinyl playing, and I surmise if digital gets to sterile and calculated it ends up crossing a line of demarcation. I think that is what is happening here. I have reinstalled my Kukama which is a multi bit machine based on the Burr Brown PCM 1704 chip set. I lose the immediacy of sound, but I gain texture and color. This is the second time I have tried to move past this DAC and failed. Either I have to decide I am a R2R kind of guy or perhaps I am finding out that a 16/44.1 album is best played back in native format and that DSD files have to be obtained to see the benefits of the high resolution format. I don't have an answer to that question, and to be honest I am not sure how much I should invest to find that answer.

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Re: New Dac

Unread post by karatestu »

Hi NK :grin:

I can't help you with the digital system much because I am CD & vinyl only. There is no shame in sticking with the older technology such as R2R dacs. The Doc championed a little dac from China that cost less than £5 inc shipping. The dac in my Naim CD3.5 is a bistream jobbie from the 1990's. I have extensively modified the cdp but this dac is old technology and I don't feel the need to change. It only needs a first order filter after the dac chip to work so I removed Naim's anolgue stage altogether and to me it sounds loads better. Keeping it simple really is rewarding sometimes.

The moral of the story is you don't need cutting edge technology to get good music. In fact it is quite liberating to not have to bother messing about with it. No usb problems and endless cable upgrades as the decoder is 2 cm of circuit board track away from the dac chip and the signal is sent via I2S. No reclocking needed or any other bells & whistles required.

I would advise sticking with what you have if you like it that much and forget about the new products and technologies coming out. Marketing , marketing, marketing. It's all bollox :grin:
DIY FREE ZONE

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Re: New Dac

Unread post by Neonknight »

@karatestu

I hear what you are saying, and that very well be what I find out. At least for me, a person who has predominately a CD Redbook music collection. This might be a limitation of the medium I am bumping up against, or a defining characteristic of how I have constructed my system in that it sounds best with a R2R DAC along with my choice of 16/44.1 software. But on the other hand its worth exploring too, as it seems to be inherent in our nature. If good enough was sufficient for our forefathers we might have stopped at the invention of the bicycle rather than inventing the automobile or the plane. Some might argue that those forms of transportation have their own Pandoras Box of ills. There is probably an element of truth in that perspective too. I don't think I am done yet trying to move my digital playback capabilities forward, but I don't have a course of action planned at this point. This is a hobby right? Given the nature of the rest of my system, I have effectively hit my ceiling in the other areas. This is my final frontier. Well at least this month.

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Re: New Dac

Unread post by Fretless »

Steve Guttenberg's video review of the Denafrips Arse (sorry, ARES) and a comparison to the Shit (sorry, SCHIIT) Bifrost.
(I think Slinger has put a virus in my spelling control).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x32kMm6E4Pg&t=164s

Damn, I just HAVE to get one of these somehow. :pray:
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slinger (Mon Mar 01, 2021 11:35 pm)

Upstairs:
Vinyl
Pro-Ject 1.2 + Grado Sig Jr + Cambridge Alva Duo
DigiVolumio PC + Kiss DP-500 + Sabaj A20d
NVA: P50sa - Cube2 - SSP - LS6+ Sabaj A10a (x2)
Downstairs:
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Logic DM101 + Syrinx LE1 + Grado Sig MCX
DigiDenafrips Ares II + Volumio PC + Cambridge CXC
NVA: P50 - BMU+ Aiyima A07 MAX (x2) + Arcam One
HP: HifiBerry Digi+ PRO + Sabaj A10d
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Re: New Dac

Unread post by Fretless »

Image

Ordered direct from distributor Vinshine Audio in Singapore.

Only €670



Oooohh, the anticipation .... :dance:
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Neonknight (Wed Mar 03, 2021 3:40 am)

Upstairs:
Vinyl
Pro-Ject 1.2 + Grado Sig Jr + Cambridge Alva Duo
DigiVolumio PC + Kiss DP-500 + Sabaj A20d
NVA: P50sa - Cube2 - SSP - LS6+ Sabaj A10a (x2)
Downstairs:
Vinyl
Logic DM101 + Syrinx LE1 + Grado Sig MCX
DigiDenafrips Ares II + Volumio PC + Cambridge CXC
NVA: P50 - BMU+ Aiyima A07 MAX (x2) + Arcam One
HP: HifiBerry Digi+ PRO + Sabaj A10d
Office:
Allo DigiOne SIG + SMSL M300se + Douk G4 (x2)
Mission 760 + Monolith THX AAA 887
Headphones: German Maestro, Monolith & AQ

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Re: New Dac

Unread post by Neonknight »

Sometimes I need to learn to leave things alone. I spent the last couple of days working with this DAC and going through settings and configurations for Roon and Audirvana. My conclusion is that the sound is tonally gray when compared to the previous configuration, although its is more immediate and focused. But if you don't have good tone, nothing else can make up for that. So I am pulling the plug on this experiment.

Go back to the old system and be happy right? Well its not that easy. In the old system I had a PS Audio LANRover between a Mac Mini and the DAC, and Pure Music as the server program. Pure Music will not interface with Qobuz, supposedly they got a system but even Johnny Darko could not get it to work. Secondly I found a Mac Mini was not powerful enough to run a conversion from 16/44.1 to DSD 256, even with a M1 based machine I bought. The next step was buying the appropriate Windows based machine an Intel Nuc, which means I cannot move the music program over. Also the LANRover could not process the higher rate DSD data flows so it had to be removed. This also means I had to re rip all my files to a hard drive that was Windows formatted, and I chose to do that instead of transferring them to a new hard drive and converting them in the process.

Well even with the R2R DAC reinstalled with the new computer and the new music programs it doesnt sound as good as it did with the previous arrangement. Was it using a Mac Mini and custom power cord built for it? Was it Pure Music? Was it the LANRover? I really don't know and since the Mac and the LANRover were sold to purchase other parts needed to do this, I am unable to reconstruct that system. Now some folks said a LANRover was a rebadged ethernet extender, and you could buy an Ikron or something similar and achieve the same results. That I don't know, but the commercial products arent cheap, in the $300 range.

The lesson to be learned? Don't do things like me. Always make sure you can return to a previous set up before you make a final decision. I have managed to screw the pooch on this digital rig and now have to find a new solution. I don't know what it is, whether its exploring NOS DACs, or trying to see if the commercial ethernet extender will restore the functionality I had, or see if I can purchase a copy of Pure Music for Windows and only run Qobuz through their desktop program. In short, I screwed up.

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Re: New Dac

Unread post by antonio66 »

Well done Fretless, I look forward to your review and hope you like it. You'll have a nice little collection of dac's to choose from.

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Re: New Dac

Unread post by Fretless »

Neonknight wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 6:35 pm The lesson to be learned? Don't do things like me. Always make sure you can return to a previous set up before you make a final decision. I have managed to screw the pooch on this digital rig and now have to find a new solution. In short, I screwed up.
Ah well NK - hard lessons are best learned by first finding out what you should NOT do.
We've all been there.

Keep on looking and better luck with the next attempt. :clap:

Upstairs:
Vinyl
Pro-Ject 1.2 + Grado Sig Jr + Cambridge Alva Duo
DigiVolumio PC + Kiss DP-500 + Sabaj A20d
NVA: P50sa - Cube2 - SSP - LS6+ Sabaj A10a (x2)
Downstairs:
Vinyl
Logic DM101 + Syrinx LE1 + Grado Sig MCX
DigiDenafrips Ares II + Volumio PC + Cambridge CXC
NVA: P50 - BMU+ Aiyima A07 MAX (x2) + Arcam One
HP: HifiBerry Digi+ PRO + Sabaj A10d
Office:
Allo DigiOne SIG + SMSL M300se + Douk G4 (x2)
Mission 760 + Monolith THX AAA 887
Headphones: German Maestro, Monolith & AQ

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