HiFi Subjectivist ¦ Audio Forum ¦ NVA User Group

Posted: **Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:29 am**

At least I am not the only one ....

Customer feedback:
* From Switzerland：I had another test now with Bonn N8 in comparison with a Netgear Prosafe switch. Damn, this was quiet a diference I must say. Listening on McIntosh Amp with NAD Master Streamer-Server on PMC Twenty5.24 speakers.

Review from this page : https://www.kempelektroniksshop.nl/sile ... witch.html

Posted: **Fri Jan 17, 2020 5:36 pm**

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Yesterday I ordered a new router/hub which should arrive tomorrow. I am upgrading my Sky 2013 model to the 2019 with a broadband boost. Dont know if it will have any effect on SQ. Only £30 and as part of a new contract Sky are reducing my subscription by £10 for the next 18 months.

Wish they were more open about such deals.
[/quote]

The router/hub arrived this afternoon. Among the differences is a 12v walwart power supply. The 2013 version had what seems a standard mains plug. Hoping this could have a positive effect on SQ. Some serious listening over the weekend.

Posted: **Sat Jan 18, 2020 11:49 pm**

CN211276 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 17, 2020 5:36 pm

"Yesterday I ordered a new router/hub which should arrive tomorrow. I am upgrading my Sky 2013 model to the 2019 with a broadband boost. Dont know if it will have any effect on SQ. Only £30 and as part of a new contract Sky are reducing my subscription by £10 for the next 18 months.

Wish they were more open about such deals."
[/quote]

"The router/hub arrived this afternoon. Among the differences is a 12v walwart power supply. The 2013 version had what seems a standard mains plug. Hoping this could have a positive effect on SQ. Some serious listening over the weekend."
[/quote]

The updated Sky router/hub has brought about an improvement, not dramatic but noticable. There is an all round increase in clarity, especially in respect of the bass which sounds slighty higher in the mix on most recordings. I think this could be linked to the superior power supply. What is clear to me is that what goes on before the signal reaches the streamer has an effect on the music coming out of the speakers. My next step will be upgrading the ethernet cable, but not before the upgraded A80s are back and run in. I need to be certain where improvements are coming from.

Posted: **Sun Jan 19, 2020 3:07 pm**

I've been thinking about this a bit more.

If an audiophile copper switch with audiophile cables sounds good, then a fibre optic solution should sound just or good or better, whilst potentially costing less, depending on your current music streaming set-up.

A fibre optic solution would involve doing what this guy has done, or some variation on that theme.
[BBvideo=560,315]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDiiHN0MPdA[/BBvideo]
It'd also involve having a music streaming PC that'd take a fibre optic / SFP or SFP+ or QSFP network card.

The advantages of fibre over copper are:
No radio / magnetic interference whatsoever coming into the streaming device. It's a light signal coming in instead of an electrical signal!
Faster speeds possible with fibre.
For a given speed, the fibre network card should draw less power / create less heat. I'm not sure how 10 Gbps fibre compares to 1 Gbps copper for power.
Fake cables aren't such an issue for fibre.
20 metre LC to LC fibre OM3 duplex patch cables can be bought for about £10.

The biggest downside is that I can't see how devices like Asus Tinker Boards can take a fibre network card.
Plus direct A to B bake-offs will be difficult as most people won't have duplicate storage and streaming devices. And installing and configuring a network card will take a few minutes and it's not the sort of thing you'd want to do a hokey cokey in out in out shake it all about on.
Another downside is that we might be getting quite techie in implementing a fibre solution. For someone like me, I'd be confident in tackling such a project. Others might enter such a project with some trepidation.
And BTW, I'm struggling to find Windows PC compatible SFP+ network cards at the prices mentioned in the Craft Computing video.

All we need is a guinea pig to test a fibre connection in their system. Any takers?

Posted: **Sun Jan 19, 2020 3:22 pm**

Lindsayt wrote: ↑Sun Jan 19, 2020 3:07 pm I've been thinking about this a bit more.

If an audiophile copper switch with audiophile cables sounds good, then a fibre optic solution should sound just or good or better, whilst potentially costing less, depending on your current music streaming set-up.

A fibre optic solution would involve doing what this guy has done, or some variation on that theme.
[BBvideo=560,315]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDiiHN0MPdA[/BBvideo]
It'd also involve having a music streaming PC that'd take a fibre optic / SFP or SFP+ or QSFP network card.

The advantages of fibre over copper are:
No radio / magnetic interference whatsoever coming into the streaming device. It's a light signal coming in instead of an electrical signal!
Faster speeds possible with fibre.
For a given speed, the fibre network card should draw less power / create less heat. I'm not sure how 10 Gbps fibre compares to 1 Gbps copper for power.
Fake cables aren't such an issue for fibre.
20 metre LC to LC fibre OM3 duplex patch cables can be bought for about £10.

The biggest downside is that I can't see how devices like Asus Tinker Boards can take a fibre network card.
Plus direct A to B bake-offs will be difficult as most people won't have duplicate storage and streaming devices. And installing and configuring a network card will take a few minutes and it's not the sort of thing you'd want to do a hokey cokey in out in out shake it all about on.
Another downside is that we might be getting quite techie in implementing a fibre solution. For someone like me, I'd be confident in tackling such a project. Others might enter such a project with some trepidation.
And BTW, I'm struggling to find Windows PC compatible SFP+ network cards at the prices mentioned in the Craft Computing video.

All we need is a guinea pig to test a fibre connection in their system. Any takers?

Would be beyond me.

Posted: **Sun Jan 19, 2020 3:43 pm**

Lindsayt wrote: ↑Sun Jan 19, 2020 3:07 pm I've been thinking about this a bit more.

If an audiophile copper switch with audiophile cables sounds good, then a fibre optic solution should sound just or good or better, whilst potentially costing less, depending on your current music streaming set-up.

A fibre optic solution would involve doing what this guy has done, or some variation on that theme.
[BBvideo=560,315]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDiiHN0MPdA[/BBvideo]
It'd also involve having a music streaming PC that'd take a fibre optic / SFP or SFP+ or QSFP network card.

The advantages of fibre over copper are:
No radio / magnetic interference whatsoever coming into the streaming device. It's a light signal coming in instead of an electrical signal!
Faster speeds possible with fibre.
For a given speed, the fibre network card should draw less power / create less heat. I'm not sure how 10 Gbps fibre compares to 1 Gbps copper for power.
Fake cables aren't such an issue for fibre.
20 metre LC to LC fibre OM3 duplex patch cables can be bought for about £10.

The biggest downside is that I can't see how devices like Asus Tinker Boards can take a fibre network card.
Plus direct A to B bake-offs will be difficult as most people won't have duplicate storage and streaming devices. And installing and configuring a network card will take a few minutes and it's not the sort of thing you'd want to do a hokey cokey in out in out shake it all about on.
Another downside is that we might be getting quite techie in implementing a fibre solution. For someone like me, I'd be confident in tackling such a project. Others might enter such a project with some trepidation.
And BTW, I'm struggling to find Windows PC compatible SFP+ network cards at the prices mentioned in the Craft Computing video.

All we need is a guinea pig to test a fibre connection in their system. Any takers?

Very interesting thoughts, Lindsay. I tend to think that any improvement would be more noticeable on longer runs. Unfortunately (or fortunately perhaps

) I only have a 7.5m run (and I don't actually need that long a cable) so tend to think that for me any differences would be negligible. 15-20m and above I think it would definitely be worth a go, especially for in-wall installations.

Posted: **Sun Jan 19, 2020 4:49 pm**

slinger wrote: ↑Sun Jan 19, 2020 3:43 pm

Very interesting thoughts, Lindsay. I tend to think that any improvement would be more noticeable on longer runs. Unfortunately (or fortunately perhaps ) I only have a 7.5m run (and I don't actually need that long a cable) so tend to think that for me any differences would be negligible. 15-20m and above I think it would definitely be worth a go, especially for in-wall installations.

Yeah, it's all if and buts as to whether the fibre optics is worth trying or not.

It would be most suitable for someone with a PC based streaming device and a NAS or storage server that's compatible with an SFP+ network card.

Taking a look at the estimated costs:
£140 brand new Mikrotik 4 port SFP+ switch
£80 ish? 2 x used SFP+ network cards for the streaming and storage devices
£80 for 4 x 10 GB SFP+ fibre modules.
£20 for 2 x LC to LC patch cables long enough to go from one end of the house to the other.

£320. For a 10 Gbps fibre network connection. Compared to £400 for a 1 Gbps copper audiophile switch.

Posted: **Mon Jan 20, 2020 1:00 am**

CN211276 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 18, 2020 11:49 pm
CN211276 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 17, 2020 5:36 pm
The updated Sky router/hub has brought about an improvement, not dramatic but noticable. There is an all round increase in clarity, esqpecially in respect of the bass which sounds slighty higher in the mix on most recordings. I think this could be linked to the superior power supply. What is clear to me is that what goes on before the signal reaches the streamer has an effect on the music coming out of the speakers

Had a similar experience from upgrading home broadband to EE fibre with 60+Mbps last week. Marginal improvements in clarity giving a cleaner crisper sound and again with bettered defined bass. I do not have a network as such just a streamer hard wired straight from the router. I suspect a better quality Ethernet cable could add a little more to sound quality.

Posted: **Mon Jan 20, 2020 2:56 pm**

You guys do realise that we're discussing what is a relatively new sub-genre of hi-fi here and that for once we're in the minority that the majority thinks is insane?

Posted: **Mon Jan 20, 2020 3:22 pm**

slinger wrote: ↑Mon Jan 20, 2020 2:56 pm You guys do realise that we're discussing what is a relatively new sub-genre of hi-fi here and that for once we're in the minority that the majority thinks is insane?

I trust my ears and think we are at the cutting edge in uncharted territory.

HiFi Subjectivist ¦ Audio Forum ¦ NVA User Group

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