It's so Ethereal

All general audio posts go here.
User avatar
Fretless
Posts: 6519
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2014 12:15 pm
Location: Somewhere in Holland
Has thanked: 202 times
Been thanked: 232 times
Netherlands

Re: It's so Ethereal

Unread post by Fretless »

At least I am not the only one ....

Customer feedback:
* From Switzerland:I had another test now with Bonn N8 in comparison with a Netgear Prosafe switch. Damn, this was quiet a diference I must say. Listening on McIntosh Amp with NAD Master Streamer-Server on PMC Twenty5.24 speakers.


Review from this page : https://www.kempelektroniksshop.nl/sile ... witch.html
NVA: P50sa - SSP - A40 - LS6 - Cube2 - BMU
Digits: E-Medic ST-M PC + Volumio + AQ Jitterbug
DAC: TeraDak V4.5 Chameleon CD: Cambridge CXC
USB: Oehlbach XXL Masterclock + DH Labs Mirage
Ethernet: Silent Angel Bonn N8 + AQ Cinnamon
Cans: AQ NightHawk Carbon + MF XCAN v3
Interconnect cables: DH Labs Air Matrix

User avatar
CN211276
Posts: 4150
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2016 9:29 am
Location: Cardiff
Has thanked: 192 times
Been thanked: 113 times
Wales

Re: It's so Ethereal

Unread post by CN211276 »

[/quote]


Yesterday I ordered a new router/hub which should arrive tomorrow. I am upgrading my Sky 2013 model to the 2019 with a broadband boost. Dont know if it will have any effect on SQ. Only £30 and as part of a new contract Sky are reducing my subscription by £10 for the next 18 months. :grin: Wish they were more open about such deals.
[/quote]

The router/hub arrived this afternoon. Among the differences is a 12v walwart power supply. The 2013 version had what seems a standard mains plug. Hoping this could have a positive effect on SQ. Some serious listening over the weekend.
System DC Blocker, NVA BMU, Cisco 2960G, Sonore MicroRendu/MCRU PS, AQ JB, ifi iPurifier 3, Chord Mscaler, Chord Qutest/MCRU PS, NVA P90SA Mk2, NVA A80s Mk3, NVA Cube 1s, NVA TSCS, NVA TIS, DH Labs Mirage USB/Silver Sonic BNC, Cat 8 ethernet.
HP Grado SR 325e, Chord Mojo, AQ Carbon.
Analogue Rega Planar 3, Denon DL-110, NVA Phono 1.
Second System Topping E30, NVA P20, NVA A20, NVA Cubettes, NVA LS3, NVA, NVA SSP, SSC, AQ Carbon.
Out Beyerdynamic Avenha, AQ DF Red.

RIP Doc

User avatar
CN211276
Posts: 4150
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2016 9:29 am
Location: Cardiff
Has thanked: 192 times
Been thanked: 113 times
Wales

Re: It's so Ethereal

Unread post by CN211276 »

CN211276 wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 5:36 pm

"Yesterday I ordered a new router/hub which should arrive tomorrow. I am upgrading my Sky 2013 model to the 2019 with a broadband boost. Dont know if it will have any effect on SQ. Only £30 and as part of a new contract Sky are reducing my subscription by £10 for the next 18 months. :grin: Wish they were more open about such deals."
[/quote]

"The router/hub arrived this afternoon. Among the differences is a 12v walwart power supply. The 2013 version had what seems a standard mains plug. Hoping this could have a positive effect on SQ. Some serious listening over the weekend."
[/quote]

The updated Sky router/hub has brought about an improvement, not dramatic but noticable. There is an all round increase in clarity, especially in respect of the bass which sounds slighty higher in the mix on most recordings. I think this could be linked to the superior power supply. What is clear to me is that what goes on before the signal reaches the streamer has an effect on the music coming out of the speakers. My next step will be upgrading the ethernet cable, but not before the upgraded A80s are back and run in. I need to be certain where improvements are coming from.
System DC Blocker, NVA BMU, Cisco 2960G, Sonore MicroRendu/MCRU PS, AQ JB, ifi iPurifier 3, Chord Mscaler, Chord Qutest/MCRU PS, NVA P90SA Mk2, NVA A80s Mk3, NVA Cube 1s, NVA TSCS, NVA TIS, DH Labs Mirage USB/Silver Sonic BNC, Cat 8 ethernet.
HP Grado SR 325e, Chord Mojo, AQ Carbon.
Analogue Rega Planar 3, Denon DL-110, NVA Phono 1.
Second System Topping E30, NVA P20, NVA A20, NVA Cubettes, NVA LS3, NVA, NVA SSP, SSC, AQ Carbon.
Out Beyerdynamic Avenha, AQ DF Red.

RIP Doc

User avatar
Lindsayt
Posts: 3110
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2012 9:06 pm
Has thanked: 77 times
Been thanked: 67 times
Vatican City

Re: It's so Ethereal

Unread post by Lindsayt »

I've been thinking about this a bit more.

If an audiophile copper switch with audiophile cables sounds good, then a fibre optic solution should sound just or good or better, whilst potentially costing less, depending on your current music streaming set-up.

A fibre optic solution would involve doing what this guy has done, or some variation on that theme.
[BBvideo=560,315]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDiiHN0MPdA[/BBvideo]
It'd also involve having a music streaming PC that'd take a fibre optic / SFP or SFP+ or QSFP network card.

The advantages of fibre over copper are:
No radio / magnetic interference whatsoever coming into the streaming device. It's a light signal coming in instead of an electrical signal!
Faster speeds possible with fibre.
For a given speed, the fibre network card should draw less power / create less heat. I'm not sure how 10 Gbps fibre compares to 1 Gbps copper for power.
Fake cables aren't such an issue for fibre.
20 metre LC to LC fibre OM3 duplex patch cables can be bought for about £10.

The biggest downside is that I can't see how devices like Asus Tinker Boards can take a fibre network card.
Plus direct A to B bake-offs will be difficult as most people won't have duplicate storage and streaming devices. And installing and configuring a network card will take a few minutes and it's not the sort of thing you'd want to do a hokey cokey in out in out shake it all about on.
Another downside is that we might be getting quite techie in implementing a fibre solution. For someone like me, I'd be confident in tackling such a project. Others might enter such a project with some trepidation.
And BTW, I'm struggling to find Windows PC compatible SFP+ network cards at the prices mentioned in the Craft Computing video.

All we need is a guinea pig to test a fibre connection in their system. Any takers?

User avatar
CN211276
Posts: 4150
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2016 9:29 am
Location: Cardiff
Has thanked: 192 times
Been thanked: 113 times
Wales

Re: It's so Ethereal

Unread post by CN211276 »

Lindsayt wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 3:07 pm
I've been thinking about this a bit more.

If an audiophile copper switch with audiophile cables sounds good, then a fibre optic solution should sound just or good or better, whilst potentially costing less, depending on your current music streaming set-up.

A fibre optic solution would involve doing what this guy has done, or some variation on that theme.
[BBvideo=560,315]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDiiHN0MPdA[/BBvideo]
It'd also involve having a music streaming PC that'd take a fibre optic / SFP or SFP+ or QSFP network card.

The advantages of fibre over copper are:
No radio / magnetic interference whatsoever coming into the streaming device. It's a light signal coming in instead of an electrical signal!
Faster speeds possible with fibre.
For a given speed, the fibre network card should draw less power / create less heat. I'm not sure how 10 Gbps fibre compares to 1 Gbps copper for power.
Fake cables aren't such an issue for fibre.
20 metre LC to LC fibre OM3 duplex patch cables can be bought for about £10.

The biggest downside is that I can't see how devices like Asus Tinker Boards can take a fibre network card.
Plus direct A to B bake-offs will be difficult as most people won't have duplicate storage and streaming devices. And installing and configuring a network card will take a few minutes and it's not the sort of thing you'd want to do a hokey cokey in out in out shake it all about on.
Another downside is that we might be getting quite techie in implementing a fibre solution. For someone like me, I'd be confident in tackling such a project. Others might enter such a project with some trepidation.
And BTW, I'm struggling to find Windows PC compatible SFP+ network cards at the prices mentioned in the Craft Computing video.

All we need is a guinea pig to test a fibre connection in their system. Any takers?
Would be beyond me. :lol:
System DC Blocker, NVA BMU, Cisco 2960G, Sonore MicroRendu/MCRU PS, AQ JB, ifi iPurifier 3, Chord Mscaler, Chord Qutest/MCRU PS, NVA P90SA Mk2, NVA A80s Mk3, NVA Cube 1s, NVA TSCS, NVA TIS, DH Labs Mirage USB/Silver Sonic BNC, Cat 8 ethernet.
HP Grado SR 325e, Chord Mojo, AQ Carbon.
Analogue Rega Planar 3, Denon DL-110, NVA Phono 1.
Second System Topping E30, NVA P20, NVA A20, NVA Cubettes, NVA LS3, NVA, NVA SSP, SSC, AQ Carbon.
Out Beyerdynamic Avenha, AQ DF Red.

RIP Doc

User avatar
slinger
Posts: 5607
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:30 pm
Location: The Garden of England
Has thanked: 447 times
Been thanked: 449 times
Great Britain

Re: It's so Ethereal

Unread post by slinger »

Lindsayt wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 3:07 pm
I've been thinking about this a bit more.

If an audiophile copper switch with audiophile cables sounds good, then a fibre optic solution should sound just or good or better, whilst potentially costing less, depending on your current music streaming set-up.

A fibre optic solution would involve doing what this guy has done, or some variation on that theme.
[BBvideo=560,315]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDiiHN0MPdA[/BBvideo]
It'd also involve having a music streaming PC that'd take a fibre optic / SFP or SFP+ or QSFP network card.

The advantages of fibre over copper are:
No radio / magnetic interference whatsoever coming into the streaming device. It's a light signal coming in instead of an electrical signal!
Faster speeds possible with fibre.
For a given speed, the fibre network card should draw less power / create less heat. I'm not sure how 10 Gbps fibre compares to 1 Gbps copper for power.
Fake cables aren't such an issue for fibre.
20 metre LC to LC fibre OM3 duplex patch cables can be bought for about £10.

The biggest downside is that I can't see how devices like Asus Tinker Boards can take a fibre network card.
Plus direct A to B bake-offs will be difficult as most people won't have duplicate storage and streaming devices. And installing and configuring a network card will take a few minutes and it's not the sort of thing you'd want to do a hokey cokey in out in out shake it all about on.
Another downside is that we might be getting quite techie in implementing a fibre solution. For someone like me, I'd be confident in tackling such a project. Others might enter such a project with some trepidation.
And BTW, I'm struggling to find Windows PC compatible SFP+ network cards at the prices mentioned in the Craft Computing video.

All we need is a guinea pig to test a fibre connection in their system. Any takers?
Very interesting thoughts, Lindsay. I tend to think that any improvement would be more noticeable on longer runs. Unfortunately (or fortunately perhaps :lol: ) I only have a 7.5m run (and I don't actually need that long a cable) so tend to think that for me any differences would be negligible. 15-20m and above I think it would definitely be worth a go, especially for in-wall installations.
Amps - NVA P50, A30, A40, Stanislav Palo Tube Headphone Amp BB 85
Speakers - Monitor Audio Silver RX2
Cables - NVA LS1+LS3, SSC, Gotham S/PDIF, IBRA Optical
Digital - NAD C516BEE, SONY ST-SDB900 DAB TUNER, TEAC UD-H01 DAC
Analogue - Pro-Ject Debut Carbon Esprit SB, Graham Slee Gram Amp 2 Phono
Cans - Grado SR80, ATH-M50X

User avatar
Lindsayt
Posts: 3110
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2012 9:06 pm
Has thanked: 77 times
Been thanked: 67 times
Vatican City

Re: It's so Ethereal

Unread post by Lindsayt »

slinger wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 3:43 pm


Very interesting thoughts, Lindsay. I tend to think that any improvement would be more noticeable on longer runs. Unfortunately (or fortunately perhaps :lol: ) I only have a 7.5m run (and I don't actually need that long a cable) so tend to think that for me any differences would be negligible. 15-20m and above I think it would definitely be worth a go, especially for in-wall installations.
Yeah, it's all if and buts as to whether the fibre optics is worth trying or not.

It would be most suitable for someone with a PC based streaming device and a NAS or storage server that's compatible with an SFP+ network card.

Taking a look at the estimated costs:
£140 brand new Mikrotik 4 port SFP+ switch
£80 ish? 2 x used SFP+ network cards for the streaming and storage devices
£80 for 4 x 10 GB SFP+ fibre modules.
£20 for 2 x LC to LC patch cables long enough to go from one end of the house to the other.

£320. For a 10 Gbps fibre network connection. Compared to £400 for a 1 Gbps copper audiophile switch. :angry-soapbox:

29mile
Posts: 136
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2012 1:20 pm
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 21 times

Re: It's so Ethereal

Unread post by 29mile »

CN211276 wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 11:49 pm
CN211276 wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 5:36 pm
The updated Sky router/hub has brought about an improvement, not dramatic but noticable. There is an all round increase in clarity, esqpecially in respect of the bass which sounds slighty higher in the mix on most recordings. I think this could be linked to the superior power supply. What is clear to me is that what goes on before the signal reaches the streamer has an effect on the music coming out of the speakers
Had a similar experience from upgrading home broadband to EE fibre with 60+Mbps last week. Marginal improvements in clarity giving a cleaner crisper sound and again with bettered defined bass. I do not have a network as such just a streamer hard wired straight from the router. I suspect a better quality Ethernet cable could add a little more to sound quality.

User avatar
slinger
Posts: 5607
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:30 pm
Location: The Garden of England
Has thanked: 447 times
Been thanked: 449 times
Great Britain

Re: It's so Ethereal

Unread post by slinger »

You guys do realise that we're discussing what is a relatively new sub-genre of hi-fi here and that for once we're in the minority that the majority thinks is insane? :lol:
Amps - NVA P50, A30, A40, Stanislav Palo Tube Headphone Amp BB 85
Speakers - Monitor Audio Silver RX2
Cables - NVA LS1+LS3, SSC, Gotham S/PDIF, IBRA Optical
Digital - NAD C516BEE, SONY ST-SDB900 DAB TUNER, TEAC UD-H01 DAC
Analogue - Pro-Ject Debut Carbon Esprit SB, Graham Slee Gram Amp 2 Phono
Cans - Grado SR80, ATH-M50X

User avatar
CN211276
Posts: 4150
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2016 9:29 am
Location: Cardiff
Has thanked: 192 times
Been thanked: 113 times
Wales

Re: It's so Ethereal

Unread post by CN211276 »

slinger wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 2:56 pm
You guys do realise that we're discussing what is a relatively new sub-genre of hi-fi here and that for once we're in the minority that the majority thinks is insane? :lol:
I trust my ears and think we are at the cutting edge in uncharted territory. :dance:
System DC Blocker, NVA BMU, Cisco 2960G, Sonore MicroRendu/MCRU PS, AQ JB, ifi iPurifier 3, Chord Mscaler, Chord Qutest/MCRU PS, NVA P90SA Mk2, NVA A80s Mk3, NVA Cube 1s, NVA TSCS, NVA TIS, DH Labs Mirage USB/Silver Sonic BNC, Cat 8 ethernet.
HP Grado SR 325e, Chord Mojo, AQ Carbon.
Analogue Rega Planar 3, Denon DL-110, NVA Phono 1.
Second System Topping E30, NVA P20, NVA A20, NVA Cubettes, NVA LS3, NVA, NVA SSP, SSC, AQ Carbon.
Out Beyerdynamic Avenha, AQ DF Red.

RIP Doc

Post Reply