Speakers

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Lindsayt
Posts: 2837
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2012 9:06 pm
Marshall Islands

Re: Speakers

Unread post by Lindsayt » Sat Jul 27, 2019 10:16 pm

Daniel Quinn wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 6:21 pm
Lurcher, such inverse snobbery. For fucks sake if you think he's wrong just say so.
I think that Lucher made his opinion on crossover distortion abundantly clear.

And, besides, everyone participating on this forum can express themselves in an indirect or understated manner if they wish.

Daniel Quinn
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Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2012 7:16 am
Wales

Re: Speakers

Unread post by Daniel Quinn » Sat Jul 27, 2019 10:25 pm

This forum is better than others. As such I can rally against obfuscation. Whether in the interlocutor takes any notice is up to them.

Nevertheless is deosnt undermine the rallying against

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Lindsayt
Posts: 2837
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2012 9:06 pm
Marshall Islands

Re: Speakers

Unread post by Lindsayt » Sat Jul 27, 2019 10:31 pm

The topic of this thread is speakers.

You, or anyone else is welcome to start a thread on obfuscation.

Whilst threads do tend to have a natural life and do tend to veer off topic, keeping a thread off topic is a form of spamming.

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Ali Tait
Posts: 294
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:13 am

Re: Speakers

Unread post by Ali Tait » Sun Jul 28, 2019 12:02 am

Docfoster wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 10:20 am
Ali Tait wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 10:12 am
Good thing with this is you can connect the amp to a laptop and adjust on the fly, so it’s easy to dial the speakers in to your room.
That’s the ticket!
I use the parametric EQ in JRiver to calculate values for L-pads before building them. Usefully in JRiver one can adjust frequency, dB value and steepness of slope, so it’s incredibly helpful, and accurate, as a predictive tool. Doing it trial and error doesn’t bear thinking about!
Excellent idea, didn’t know you could do that in jriver.

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Docfoster
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Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:06 am
Wales

Re: Speakers

Unread post by Docfoster » Sun Jul 28, 2019 12:50 am

Ali Tait wrote:
Sun Jul 28, 2019 12:02 am
Docfoster wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 10:20 am
Ali Tait wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 10:12 am
Good thing with this is you can connect the amp to a laptop and adjust on the fly, so it’s easy to dial the speakers in to your room.
That’s the ticket!
I use the parametric EQ in JRiver to calculate values for L-pads before building them. Usefully in JRiver one can adjust frequency, dB value and steepness of slope, so it’s incredibly helpful, and accurate, as a predictive tool. Doing it trial and error doesn’t bear thinking about!
Excellent idea, didn’t know you could do that in jriver.
Yeah. The high- and low- shelves are perfect for subjectively finding levels. I think a Q of 0.71 replicates the slope of a 2nd order crossover, so one can use that to trace the trail off of what the speaker crossover is doing. Ime it’s bang on accurate. Unbelievably helpful in making the leap from the perfect subjective level to actually useful design information.
System 1: JRiver MC24 > Dell Latitude 7270 > Asus Xonar Essence One Muses Edition DAC & pre- > One4 Class A power amp (with Dynamic PSU boards) > DIY 3 ways (based around Goodmans 18P woofers)
LC Audio Technology mains DC filter > Sovereign MTBPS balanced power supply
TQ (Wonfor) Ultra Black cables.

System 2: Anything with a headphone socket > Inca Tech Claymore > Reworked Goodmans Magisters

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Docfoster
Posts: 55
Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:06 am
Wales

Re: Speakers

Unread post by Docfoster » Sun Jul 28, 2019 1:07 am

scotty38 wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 5:26 pm
But he's building an electronic circuit based on what his ears like. He uses a tool to tell him what those values are. Are you deliberately not reading what he's writing?
Thank you, sir.
I’m relieved to think that it wasn’t just my clumsy attempts at communication. :-)
System 1: JRiver MC24 > Dell Latitude 7270 > Asus Xonar Essence One Muses Edition DAC & pre- > One4 Class A power amp (with Dynamic PSU boards) > DIY 3 ways (based around Goodmans 18P woofers)
LC Audio Technology mains DC filter > Sovereign MTBPS balanced power supply
TQ (Wonfor) Ultra Black cables.

System 2: Anything with a headphone socket > Inca Tech Claymore > Reworked Goodmans Magisters

Simon Hickie
Posts: 580
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2017 1:47 pm
Location: East Staffordshire
Great Britain

Re: Speakers

Unread post by Simon Hickie » Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:07 am

There are some interesting points here. I am returning to listening to more classical music. Whilst my modded Allison 6 semi-omnis are fine with simpler music and rock / folk / blues, they are not great with full-bore symphonic stuff. And the area that tends to be weakest is the bottom end. Even 8 inch drivers just seem to be too small to convey the weight and scale of large orchestras. And don't get me started on skinny speakers with 6 inch drivers, or ported boxes.

So I've come to the conclusion that 'there's no replacement for displacement'. Open baffle with a large bass driver plus a full ranger seems to be a good place to start. Martin J King has done a lot of work in this area, including open baffles, U frames and H frames. My new project is likely to be a 'semi-U' frame with separate baffle for the full ranger. I'm not interested in chest-thumping bass. But I am interested in achieving a nicely textured bass that is sufficiently extended.

I know crossovers are anathema to many here. However, I intend to roll off the bass driver electrically from 200hz upwards. As for the full ranger, whilst it could run full range, rolling off the bottom end should improve the quality of the midrange and treble. The respective roll-offs can be achieved both passively and actively and I have the bits for either.

I have found that the semi-omnis have a have a habit of exiting room modes in a less than pleasant way - in my room anyway. And with respect to flat frequency responses, a speaker may measure fine in the lab or chamber. But once you put it in a listening room that all counts for nothing.

So folks, look out for a new thread at some point on my OB project - which may or may not go well...

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karatestu
Posts: 2249
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2017 4:40 pm
Location: North Yorkshire
Great Britain

Re: Speakers

Unread post by karatestu » Tue Aug 13, 2019 5:06 pm

Look forward to it Simon and welcome back :guiness;
DIY inspired by Richard "The Doc" Dunn RIP

antonio66
Posts: 131
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2019 8:16 am
Great Britain

Re: Speakers

Unread post by antonio66 » Tue Aug 13, 2019 5:21 pm

Another looking forward to your thread, and good luck with this speaker project.

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Docfoster
Posts: 55
Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:06 am
Wales

Re: Speakers

Unread post by Docfoster » Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:14 pm

Simon Hickie wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:07 am
There are some interesting points here. I am returning to listening to more classical music. Whilst my modded Allison 6 semi-omnis are fine with simpler music and rock / folk / blues, they are not great with full-bore symphonic stuff. And the area that tends to be weakest is the bottom end. Even 8 inch drivers just seem to be too small to convey the weight and scale of large orchestras. And don't get me started on skinny speakers with 6 inch drivers, or ported boxes.

So I've come to the conclusion that 'there's no replacement for displacement'. Open baffle with a large bass driver plus a full ranger seems to be a good place to start. Martin J King has done a lot of work in this area, including open baffles, U frames and H frames. My new project is likely to be a 'semi-U' frame with separate baffle for the full ranger. I'm not interested in chest-thumping bass. But I am interested in achieving a nicely textured bass that is sufficiently extended.

I know crossovers are anathema to many here. However, I intend to roll off the bass driver electrically from 200hz upwards. As for the full ranger, whilst it could run full range, rolling off the bottom end should improve the quality of the midrange and treble. The respective roll-offs can be achieved both passively and actively and I have the bits for either.

I have found that the semi-omnis have a have a habit of exiting room modes in a less than pleasant way - in my room anyway. And with respect to flat frequency responses, a speaker may measure fine in the lab or chamber. But once you put it in a listening room that all counts for nothing.

So folks, look out for a new thread at some point on my OB project - which may or may not go well...
I’m of a similar mind regarding driver size. Have considered an OB project myself, but haven’t felt sufficiently confident about tackling an approach of which I have little experience. I will follow any future thread of your experiences do with keen vested interest!
(For what it’s worth, my instinct, based on my own tinkerings with infinite baffles is that 200Hz is probably a good frequency at which to start for your bottom crossover point.)
System 1: JRiver MC24 > Dell Latitude 7270 > Asus Xonar Essence One Muses Edition DAC & pre- > One4 Class A power amp (with Dynamic PSU boards) > DIY 3 ways (based around Goodmans 18P woofers)
LC Audio Technology mains DC filter > Sovereign MTBPS balanced power supply
TQ (Wonfor) Ultra Black cables.

System 2: Anything with a headphone socket > Inca Tech Claymore > Reworked Goodmans Magisters

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