DAC to the Future

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slinger
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Re: DAC to the Future

Unread post by slinger »

I've got nothing but good things to say about SMSL after using their DACs and amps (and DAC/amps) for years.
Amps - NVA P50, AP30, A40, Stanislav Palo Tube Headphone Amp BB 85
Speakers - Monitor Audio Silver RX2
Cables - NVA LS1+LS3, SSC, Gotham S/PDIF, IBRA Optical
Digital - NAD C516BEE, SONY ST-SDB900 DAB TUNER, TEAC UD-H01 DAC
Analogue - Pro-Ject Debut Carbon Esprit SB, Graham Slee Gram Amp 2 Phono
Cans - Grado SR80, ATH-M50X

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Re: DAC to the Future

Unread post by Fretless »

It was time for the 'Acid Test' - how does the affordable Topping D30 fare against the entry-level NOS-based Metrum Musette?

More and more I am coming to the conclusion that DAC's are idiosyncratic little beasts in the same way that turntables are. There is a major synergetic factor in partnering these digital convertors with other components and what sounds fine with one amp or interconnect may not sound nearly as good in another setup.

My Musical Fidelity M1DAC is mild-mannered and polite but sounds great with the Schiit Magni3 headphone amp; big, wide soundstage, loads of detail and dynamics.
The D30 eventually replaced a Cambridge DacMagic100/SBooster LPSU in my office system and is wowing me with its fine detail and clarity through an old Kenwood KA660 amp and modded Mission 760 speakers. The other DacMagic Plus is now in the bedroom where it makes up for the (slightly) lesser detail than the Topping with more midrange body and fullness.

Basically all of these DAC's are excellent for their price and usage but they all need to find their own 'sweet spot' to work the best.

So what happens when I put the Topping D30 in the NVA installation in place of the Musette? To be honest, it lasted about 5 minutes. The Topping has a very full and extended bass but it felt flabby and uncontrolled. The fine detail and widescreen soundstage was there but flat and lifeless. Gratefully hooking the Musette back in, then the bass was subtler but natural, the 3D depth returned and a sensation of airiness around the instruments. The Topping has returned to the office and I have it on as I speak and it is a joy to listen to here.

Synergy, synchronity, karma, whatever. This is also what makes mucking about with Hifi so much fun. Trying things out and seeing if it makes a difference.

This experience has also renewed my appreciation for the diminutive Metrum Musette and its awesome musicality. partnered by the transparency of NVA amps and speakers this is still the best combination I have yet heard for my own enjoyment.

Image

As the Musette has been discontinued for a while now it can be found at relatively friendly prices and also 2nd-hand. No DSD but 2 coax inputs, Toslink and USB. Worth picking up if you see one.

As a side-note I have also read something about the problem RD had with recent NOS DAC's and NVA amps. The lack of any filtering allows all sonic information to pass through to the amps - even frequencies way above the limits of human hearing. Could be that these ultrasonics were causing a harmonic resonance in the amp circuits that gave them trouble. Older Metrum DAC's certainly do not have this problem and I know that RD and Tomasz discussed modifying the amps to correct this specific problem.

Upstairs:
Vinyl
Pro-Ject 1.2 + Grado Sig Jr + Cambridge Alva Duo
DigiVolumio PC + Kiss DP-500 + Sabaj A20d
NVA: P50sa - Cube2 - SSP - LS6+ Sabaj A10a (x2)
Downstairs:
Vinyl
Logic DM101 + Syrinx LE1 + Grado Sig MCX
DigiDenafrips Ares II + Volumio PC + Cambridge CXC
NVA: P50 - BMU+ Aiyima A07 MAX (x2) + Arcam One
HP: HifiBerry Digi+ PRO + Sabaj A10d
Office:
Allo DigiOne SIG + SMSL M300se + Douk G4 (x2)
Mission 760 + Monolith THX AAA 887
Headphones: German Maestro, Monolith & AQ

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Re: DAC to the Future

Unread post by CaterhamKev »

I am yet to find (or am willing to pay for) a DAC that is better than my Asus Essence STX II in my Pc. It has upgraded op-amps from Burson Audio. My modified Caiman SEG with Dorado and Linear PSU does not sound any different to my ears.

As such, I have not investigated more expensive DACs as I just don’t see the point in spending all that money.

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Re: DAC to the Future

Unread post by slinger »

I've got a new project. I have ordered an Asus Tinker Board S to see what I can get out of the USB output. I'll be running Volumio on it, the same as I do on the Pi. Although it's powered via Micro USB, that Micro USB is completely independent of the 4 onboard USB 2 ports. It's faster than the Pi, it has Gigabit LAN and it's what Volumio have based their "Primo" streamer/player on. Now I've got a DAC with a USB input it seems the logical next step.

Asus claim that the onboard codec actually supports up to 24-bit/192kHz audio via the 3.5mm jack, but I'm not expecting too much from that. It'll be fun to have a listen though.
Amps - NVA P50, AP30, A40, Stanislav Palo Tube Headphone Amp BB 85
Speakers - Monitor Audio Silver RX2
Cables - NVA LS1+LS3, SSC, Gotham S/PDIF, IBRA Optical
Digital - NAD C516BEE, SONY ST-SDB900 DAB TUNER, TEAC UD-H01 DAC
Analogue - Pro-Ject Debut Carbon Esprit SB, Graham Slee Gram Amp 2 Phono
Cans - Grado SR80, ATH-M50X

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Re: DAC to the Future

Unread post by Fretless »

You might want to have a look at the Allo USBridge as well.
I've been considering one for a while. Here is the blurb:

Every DAC needs a source. For USB input we created the USBridge. (DigiOne is for S/PDIF).

So why not use a cheap laptop, RPI or even Sparky as a USB transport? Well you can, but they all have some limitations.

First, laptops are noisy... very noisy. On USB we usually see spikes at 100mV of noise. That will have an impact on sound system.

How about RPI? RPIs are great and very energy efficient, but on USB they have 2 major flaws. First is that bandwidth is shared between the 2 USB ports (so in fact there is only one USB), and second is that ethernet is also shared on same bus! Of course, you also have the noise on USB at about 60mV.

Maybe Sparky? The 2 USB ports (next to the ethernet port) share one input to the CPU (split by a hub). Noise on USB bus is about 27mV (pretty good) and ethernet is completely apart (bus is not shared). So it's ok, but not great.

So we developed a new board that is connected to the bottom of Sparky. Sparky has 2 independent USB controllers (2 highways), and we connect to the second one. Then we use a new USB IC that reclocks the stream using hi quality NDK Oscillators, and everything is powered by independent LDOs and hi frequency filters. The final noise of the USBridge is lower than the noise of a battery.

What we have designed and achieved is a true USB output for audio.


Image

Upstairs:
Vinyl
Pro-Ject 1.2 + Grado Sig Jr + Cambridge Alva Duo
DigiVolumio PC + Kiss DP-500 + Sabaj A20d
NVA: P50sa - Cube2 - SSP - LS6+ Sabaj A10a (x2)
Downstairs:
Vinyl
Logic DM101 + Syrinx LE1 + Grado Sig MCX
DigiDenafrips Ares II + Volumio PC + Cambridge CXC
NVA: P50 - BMU+ Aiyima A07 MAX (x2) + Arcam One
HP: HifiBerry Digi+ PRO + Sabaj A10d
Office:
Allo DigiOne SIG + SMSL M300se + Douk G4 (x2)
Mission 760 + Monolith THX AAA 887
Headphones: German Maestro, Monolith & AQ

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Re: DAC to the Future

Unread post by slinger »

I think the Tinker Board will keep me amused for now, Fretless. :lol:

Speaking of which, all the "bits" arrived today. I picked up an Oyaide NEO d+ (Class B) USB lead a nice little case that has optional "fins" that allow it to be wall-mounted, and Amazon very kindly cocked up and have sent me two SanDisk Ultra 32 GB microSDHC cards instead of the one I ordered.

Image

Everything got put together with the minimum of fuss. I've plugged it in. configured it, and at the moment it's hoovering up all of my classical files from one of my Synology NASs. When it's finished doing that I'll see if it actually plays music.
Fingers firmly crossed. If that all works I'll be able to feed it my "non-classical" files from the other Synology NAS.
Amps - NVA P50, AP30, A40, Stanislav Palo Tube Headphone Amp BB 85
Speakers - Monitor Audio Silver RX2
Cables - NVA LS1+LS3, SSC, Gotham S/PDIF, IBRA Optical
Digital - NAD C516BEE, SONY ST-SDB900 DAB TUNER, TEAC UD-H01 DAC
Analogue - Pro-Ject Debut Carbon Esprit SB, Graham Slee Gram Amp 2 Phono
Cans - Grado SR80, ATH-M50X

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Re: DAC to the Future

Unread post by slinger »

Well, that was all a bit of an anticlimax really. I put it in the case, connected everything up and it all worked straight away.

I've got all of my classical albums loaded up and I'm now listening to a nice bit of Vivaldi. Received wisdom is that the USB lead I've used takes a fair bit of running in. Not a huge amount of bass at the moment, which is exactly what was said about the (Oyaide NEO d+ USB Class B) USB lead. I'll obviously need to give it plenty of time and I've only played a couple of tracks so far. A bit "brittle" and treble-heavy, but not absolutely awful. At least I can listen to it while the lead sorts itself out... or not.

Image
Amps - NVA P50, AP30, A40, Stanislav Palo Tube Headphone Amp BB 85
Speakers - Monitor Audio Silver RX2
Cables - NVA LS1+LS3, SSC, Gotham S/PDIF, IBRA Optical
Digital - NAD C516BEE, SONY ST-SDB900 DAB TUNER, TEAC UD-H01 DAC
Analogue - Pro-Ject Debut Carbon Esprit SB, Graham Slee Gram Amp 2 Phono
Cans - Grado SR80, ATH-M50X

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Re: DAC to the Future

Unread post by slinger »

The Tinker Board is noticeably faster than the Pi. There was quite an improvement in the indexing speed of the files on my NASs.

I've switched wireless off in Volumio, and I'm running on the gigabit ethernet with a Cat 7 lead. The same warning comes with the Tinker Board as with the Pi 4, it runs warm. I have to say though, after a couple of hours of testing the case was warm to the touch, but not anything near dangerously so.

Does anyone else feel like giving the Tinker Board a try? Setting it up with Volumio was seamless, almost exactly the same as setting up the Pi in fact, and of course, it's the same form factor as the Pi so you can even recycle your Pi case. It needs a 5v/2.5-3A power supply and from what I'm hearing even this early in the game I'm very hopeful that it's going to end up sounding better than my Pi-based system with the HiFiBerry Digi+ Pro and outboard DAC.
Amps - NVA P50, AP30, A40, Stanislav Palo Tube Headphone Amp BB 85
Speakers - Monitor Audio Silver RX2
Cables - NVA LS1+LS3, SSC, Gotham S/PDIF, IBRA Optical
Digital - NAD C516BEE, SONY ST-SDB900 DAB TUNER, TEAC UD-H01 DAC
Analogue - Pro-Ject Debut Carbon Esprit SB, Graham Slee Gram Amp 2 Phono
Cans - Grado SR80, ATH-M50X

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Re: DAC to the Future

Unread post by Fretless »

I'm intrigued, certainly.

Will be looking into this when I have some time, soon.

Upstairs:
Vinyl
Pro-Ject 1.2 + Grado Sig Jr + Cambridge Alva Duo
DigiVolumio PC + Kiss DP-500 + Sabaj A20d
NVA: P50sa - Cube2 - SSP - LS6+ Sabaj A10a (x2)
Downstairs:
Vinyl
Logic DM101 + Syrinx LE1 + Grado Sig MCX
DigiDenafrips Ares II + Volumio PC + Cambridge CXC
NVA: P50 - BMU+ Aiyima A07 MAX (x2) + Arcam One
HP: HifiBerry Digi+ PRO + Sabaj A10d
Office:
Allo DigiOne SIG + SMSL M300se + Douk G4 (x2)
Mission 760 + Monolith THX AAA 887
Headphones: German Maestro, Monolith & AQ

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Re: DAC to the Future

Unread post by Fretless »

Did you run the USB output through a Jitterbug, Slinger?

Upstairs:
Vinyl
Pro-Ject 1.2 + Grado Sig Jr + Cambridge Alva Duo
DigiVolumio PC + Kiss DP-500 + Sabaj A20d
NVA: P50sa - Cube2 - SSP - LS6+ Sabaj A10a (x2)
Downstairs:
Vinyl
Logic DM101 + Syrinx LE1 + Grado Sig MCX
DigiDenafrips Ares II + Volumio PC + Cambridge CXC
NVA: P50 - BMU+ Aiyima A07 MAX (x2) + Arcam One
HP: HifiBerry Digi+ PRO + Sabaj A10d
Office:
Allo DigiOne SIG + SMSL M300se + Douk G4 (x2)
Mission 760 + Monolith THX AAA 887
Headphones: German Maestro, Monolith & AQ

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