What does hi-fi mean

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Dr Bunsen Honeydew
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Re: What does hi-fi mean

Unread post by Dr Bunsen Honeydew »

Savvy - "We now even see dealers who can sell you the ultimate scientific theory...multi-driver active speakers with 'digital sound processing' software that can produce the 'perfect' sound in any room. Apparently, it doesn't matter if any of this gets in the way of the actual music as long as it conforms to the specifications. When I hear people coldly describing a sound that is 'flat respone, low distortion, full range'...I think, you poor fucking bastard. I'm welling up to Willie Nelson or punching the air to The Clash, or conducting Dvorak's New World Symphony...they're convincing themselves it must be right because the theory says so. Linn used to tell you that you weren't listening properly, these DSP dealers tell you that you don't really even need to listen at all (and certainly not with your eyes open) just check the laptop reports."

This is the new bullshit, when the old one runs out of steam a new one has to be invented. The only thing that never runs out of steam is music. We need to learn to ignore marketing men and salesmen and just listen to ourselves, never presume though even if lots or recommendations, there is a lot of agenda driven forum member bullshit as well, so it should always be confirmed with your own music and own ears.

Bad method, listen to the bullshit and empty your pockets, yummy yummy slurp slurp

Good method -
1/listen to people you trust
2/get one on loan or guaranteed return, or second best heard at bake-off, least effective heard at shows.
3/if not for you send back and try again.
4/if you are happy never block the mind and presume - there is always something or someway better out there to improve your music. You can either make that a chore or a pleasure finding it.

ATM over 80% of the forum advice out there should be ignored, but realisation of the truth is getting better, but only when you judge by music with pleasure as the motivation. Steer clear of the slurping bullshitter, they have nothing you need.

The two worst in this are Coherent and Purite with MCRU trailing behind, but only because of involvement with Lurcher, who I hope kicks him when he gets too daft.

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Dr Bunsen Honeydew
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Re: What does hi-fi mean

Unread post by Dr Bunsen Honeydew »

Usual confusion, People demand meaningless specs. Example (simplistic) VA (volt amps) is max load on power supply which depends on load and lots of other things. Watts is about the most meaningless, all it tells you is how much potential to amplify the signal volts there is in the circuit until the signal hits the power supply rails (clipping) it is largely bullshit, unless you have lower powered amps like a single ended valve one.

Not enough watts for the load or how loud you want gets you hard clipping, not enough VA to power the load then the rails are dragged down so it soft clips. Both are bad but the first one can damage the amp. You have *enough* of everything with A20 or you would know it. More means more music.

So what has this got to do with music - nothing really, other things in the amp design are more important and all you need to find it out is your ears and your music. Each time you go up through the NVA amp range you get more music.

All the other daftness like harmonic distortion and frequency response etc are musically meaningless after you get to a certain level of ability.

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CN211276
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Re: What does hi-fi mean

Unread post by CN211276 »

I am beginning to think these frequency response graphs are :Bllocks:
There is a recent thread on Wam with a graph showing that the frequency response of the Chord Qutest DAC is flat, except with the highest frequencies, at all filter settings. This is not true. With the warm filter activated there is a very noticable bass bloom with the Cube 1s which was not there with my previous Cube 3s. The sound has been optimised for the Cube 1s by changing the filter setting.
Main System
NVA BMU, P90SA/A80s (latest spec), Cube 1s, TIS, TISC(LS7)
Sonore OpticalRendu, Chord Mscaler & Qutest, Sbooster PSs
Network Acoustics Eno, ifi iPurifier3, AQ JB FMJ, Cisco 2940 & 2960
DH Labs ethernet, BNC & USB cables, Farnells cat 8 ethernet cable

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Re: What does hi-fi mean

Unread post by Welder »

CN211276 wrote: Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:18 am I am beginning to think these frequency response graphs are :Bllocks:
There is a recent thread on Wam with a graph showing that the frequency response of the Chord Qutest DAC is flat, except with the highest frequencies, at all filter settings. This is not true. With the warm filter activated there is a very noticable bass bloom with the Cube 1s which was not there with my previous Cube 3s. The sound has been optimised for the Cube 1s by changing the filter setting.
Don't you think this might have more to do with your speakers than the Dac?
Single spur balanced Mains. Self built music server with 3 seperate linear PSU, Intel i5, 16 GB RAM no hard drive (various Linux OS). Benchmark Dac2 HGC, single ended XLR interconnects/Belkin cable. Exposure 21RC Pre, Super 18 Power (recap & modified). Modded World Audio HD83 HP amp. Hand built Monitors with external crossovers , Volt 250 bass & ABR, Scanspeak 13M8621 Mid & Scanspeak D2905/9300 Hi. HD595 & Beyer 880 (600 ohm) cans.

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Dr Bunsen Honeydew
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Re: What does hi-fi mean

Unread post by Dr Bunsen Honeydew »

Did you *actually* read what he said, as your reply makes no sense in the context.

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Re: What does hi-fi mean

Unread post by Welder »

Sure I read it, What's your point?
Bass bloom is something you hear. The frequency response of a DAC is something you measure.
Given there has been a change in speakers but not in DAC, it seems quite reasonable to suggest that it could be the speakers.
Single spur balanced Mains. Self built music server with 3 seperate linear PSU, Intel i5, 16 GB RAM no hard drive (various Linux OS). Benchmark Dac2 HGC, single ended XLR interconnects/Belkin cable. Exposure 21RC Pre, Super 18 Power (recap & modified). Modded World Audio HD83 HP amp. Hand built Monitors with external crossovers , Volt 250 bass & ABR, Scanspeak 13M8621 Mid & Scanspeak D2905/9300 Hi. HD595 & Beyer 880 (600 ohm) cans.

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Re: What does hi-fi mean

Unread post by Dr Bunsen Honeydew »

FFS I give up with this level of understanding I am just wasting my time. The above is complete nonsense. Of course it is the feckin' speaker making the noise, DOING WHAT THEY HAVE BEEN TOLD TO DO.

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Re: What does hi-fi mean

Unread post by CN211276 »

Welder wrote: Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:37 pm
CN211276 wrote: Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:18 am I am beginning to think these frequency response graphs are :Bllocks:
There is a recent thread on Wam with a graph showing that the frequency response of the Chord Qutest DAC is flat, except with the highest frequencies, at all filter settings. This is not true. With the warm filter activated there is a very noticable bass bloom with the Cube 1s which was not there with my previous Cube 3s. The sound has been optimised for the Cube 1s by changing the filter setting.
Don't you think this might have more to do with your speakers than the Dac?
It is all to do with the warm filter on the DAC boosting very low frequencies. As the Cube 1s extend lower than the 3s a neutral setting is now opimum. It is obvious that the frequency response graph does not show what is really happening when the warm filter is activated. I pointed this out on Wam but Purite Audio did not respond.
Main System
NVA BMU, P90SA/A80s (latest spec), Cube 1s, TIS, TISC(LS7)
Sonore OpticalRendu, Chord Mscaler & Qutest, Sbooster PSs
Network Acoustics Eno, ifi iPurifier3, AQ JB FMJ, Cisco 2940 & 2960
DH Labs ethernet, BNC & USB cables, Farnells cat 8 ethernet cable

Second System
NVA P20/ A20, Cubettes, LS3, SSP, SC
Sonore MicroRendu, Chord Mojo 2 MCRU PSs, AQ Carbon USB cable & JB FMJ

Headphones
Grado SR325e/Chord Mojo, Beyerdynamic Avetho/AQ DF Colbat

RIP Doc

Welder
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Re: What does hi-fi mean

Unread post by Welder »

CN211276 wrote: Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:50 pm
Welder wrote: Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:37 pm
CN211276 wrote: Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:18 am I am beginning to think these frequency response graphs are :Bllocks:
There is a recent thread on Wam with a graph showing that the frequency response of the Chord Qutest DAC is flat, except with the highest frequencies, at all filter settings. This is not true. With the warm filter activated there is a very noticable bass bloom with the Cube 1s which was not there with my previous Cube 3s. The sound has been optimised for the Cube 1s by changing the filter setting.
Don't you think this might have more to do with your speakers than the Dac?
It is all to do with the warm filter on the DAC boosting very low frequencies. As the Cube 1s extend lower than the 3s a neutral setting is now opimum. It is obvious that the frequency response graph does not show what is really happening when the warm filter is activated. I pointed this out on Wam but Purite Audio did not respond.
I haven't seen the post so I don't know what the plot was for. Some manufacturers don't give plots for anything bar the standard settings.
I have similar problems with the Benchmark. The filters do mess around with the output. I'm not surprised Purite Audio didn't answer.
They/He tended to be somewhat reticent when I used to post on AOS.
I would want to see the plots for all the filter settings.
With the Benchmark,as one might expect, I get differnt results depending on the responses of the speakers it feeds and of course, the room they operate in. Sometimes by changing the position of the speakers the bloom you've noticed can be tamed a bit.
Do you know what the difference is in the low frequency responses of the two speakers?
Single spur balanced Mains. Self built music server with 3 seperate linear PSU, Intel i5, 16 GB RAM no hard drive (various Linux OS). Benchmark Dac2 HGC, single ended XLR interconnects/Belkin cable. Exposure 21RC Pre, Super 18 Power (recap & modified). Modded World Audio HD83 HP amp. Hand built Monitors with external crossovers , Volt 250 bass & ABR, Scanspeak 13M8621 Mid & Scanspeak D2905/9300 Hi. HD595 & Beyer 880 (600 ohm) cans.

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Re: What does hi-fi mean

Unread post by _D_S_J_R_ »

From experiences old and new-ish, I'd say it's more the hf is 'slowed down' by the warm filter rather than the bass being increased (I often hear the opposite, where a hf adjustment can appear to give more or less bass rather than a change in high frequency level). Where these digital filters in DACs are concerned, I can't say I can tell much difference to be honest, but that's me, but then I haven't had the chance to play with a Chord DAC (I haven't forgiven Rob Watts yet for the things he did with his old DPA designs admitedly a long time ago now)... The sub £2K Chord DAC is supposed to be about the best there is or damned close to what's current possible, but I haven't heard one as yet to see how that translates to music reproduction. Nice little trinket for well off audiophiles though. Below is the type of stuff you may not need to know about -

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/foru ... -dac.5981/



Got to laugh at this pee taking post from the thread about the new £65k Nagra DAC. The vibe there seems to be you can get basically what domestic digital is all about for a hundred dollars now (the dac-for-a-fiver plus switching for inputs, more or less), so the new Nagra really is taking the piss I suspect -

"I agree with Blumlein, for that kind of money I want atleast DSD x8192. It it well known fact that after the samplerate exceeds 69 krungavoltrons per linear hexibyte, the spontaneus quasi-modal positron emission occurs in the conductor but only if it is made from 99.9999% + pure cryo silver. This will prevent the time smearing resonance due to heterodyne electron tunneling into the 12th compacted dimension through parasitic flow that happens inside Yau Calabi manifolds."

:lol:
Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way...The time has gone, The song is over, Thought I'd something more to say...

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