What should I do with my old LP12?

[Karnevil9]

Considering all they have to do is spin the record at 33.3 I perplexed how it could eat a rega for breakfast.

Dsjr just confirm you never compared the tts without differing arm and cartridges.

Buy two of the same deck & fit a different arm to each, they will sound different. How do i know cos ive swapped & changed different arms to the same decks ive used.

[Daniel Quinn]

Yes but how different will different motor unit with same arm and cartridge sound

[guydarryl]

I had a Rega 2 (old style, wood surround, S shape arm - still have it in a cupboard) and replaced it with the LP12/Basik plus arm - kept the ADC XLM mk2 and the LP12 sounded far better to me, so no problem with Dave's "eating it for breakfast" comment.

To say that all a deck has to do is rotate at 33.3 rpm is a simplistic and surprisingly, for this forum, objectivist comment. There does seem to be far more to a record deck's performance than just rotating at a particular speed.

The "well fettled"/"set up" comment is too easy an excuse for LP12 users to use whenever a better sounding player is found. It has become another stick to beat the LP12 with.
In my experience; yes, the LP12 can sound better after being set up, so did the Rega! (I don't like the use of "fettled" in hifi nor any other word that seems to be favoured in hi hi review speak - "After I plumbed in xyzzy cables the music just started to flow" ).
My LP12 has been set up three times in it's "life", now about thirty years.

In answer to the op question: if you like it, use and enjoy. If you don't then sell/burn/steamroller/do whatever turns you on.

[Daniel Quinn]

Objecting without saying why. Tut tut.

How do you know the difference wasn't the arm and cartridge

[_D_S_J_R_]

Yes, back in the day I compared the Rega 2 with Rega 3 with LP12, all with R200 arms and the same cartridge (often using the same stylus swapped between the three..) When I first compared the LP12 with the far cheaper Spacedeck, the LP12 had an Ittok and the Spacedeck the RB300 - cartridge was a K9 using the same stylus.

I know Colloms had vested interests in many products (speakers mainly), but his articles regarding isolation and mat choice used to be interesting reading. I'm not a fan of felt/wool mats, but that's just me I suppose.

[guydarryl]

I object to the use of "fettled" for fiddling around with a record player as I had a mate who worked as a fettler - grinding rough edges off castings (quite a risky job as the grinding wheel could shatter if old/not used carefully. Bits of broken wheel flying around was quite a hazard.
I know that language develops, that doesn't mean that I should accept it without comment.

I never said that he arm wasn't responsible for the difference, although given that lots of early LP12 users bought the Rega arm as a budget introduction to ownership of the deck and that several people (Doc included) rate the Rega arm far above any Linn arm suggests that it is the case that I was preferring just the influence of the deck - unless you are suggesting a symbiotic relationship between LP12 and basic plus.
I doubt that though as that would suggest you accept that Linn may know what they are doing

[Daniel Quinn]

O dear all these finite conclusions based on 1 persons limited ,partial experience.

[_D_S_J_R_]

Of all the turntable manufacturers, Linn knew how bad vinyl replay could be when they had good original master recordings to reference. Progress has been slow and costs (to me) ridiculous now and the mentality of some dealers and owners hasn't helped either.. Legislation has changed so today, a Valhalla kit (open mains-carrying motor supply easily get-at-able underneath) wouldn't be allowed on a new product.

Actually, I feel a Basik Plus IS better for the old fruitbox than an R200 and it seems the counterweight rubber turning to chewing gum can be dealt with.

[joe]

I object to the use of "fettled" for fiddling around with a record player as I had a mate who worked as a fettler - grinding rough edges off castings (quite a risky job as the grinding wheel could shatter if old/not used carefully. Bits of broken wheel flying around was quite a hazard.
I know that language develops, that doesn't mean that I should accept it without comment.

I'm a bit of a language purist myself, but 'fettle' has always had a broader meaning. Way back in the late 80s I was reading Postman Pat stories to my daughters. The word 'fettle' was used in one story to mean 'fix' or 'repair'. It was a word I'd never encountered in that context before, though I knew the phrase 'in fine fettle', so I checked the meaning.

The OED defines 'fettler' as someone who repairs or mends things, with citations going back to 1871, thus:

1871 Daily News 18 Aug. The cloth finishers, dressers, fettlers, and willeyers, are taking steps to obtain a general advance.
1881 Census Eng. & Wales: Instr. Clerks classifying Occupations & Ages (?1885) 87 Railway labourer, navvy,..fettler.
1883 T. Lees Easther's Gloss. Dial. Almondbury & Huddersfield Fettler, one who cleans up; especially one whose business it is to clean machinery, engines, &c.
1884 R. Holland Gloss. Words County of Chester (1886) Fettler, one who sharpens the knives of the fustian cutters.
1892 Labour Comm. Gloss. Fettler, the person who cleans out the fudd and dirt that accumulates in the cards of the scribbler and condenser.
1900 H. Lawson On Track 44 The inspector hurried to his horse, and cantered off along the line in the direction of the fettlers' camp.
1962 A. J. Marshall & R. Drysdale Journey among Men 188 Twenty miles along the line we met four fettlers on a motor-driven trolley.
1964 People (Austral.) 16 Dec. 45/4 Nowadays, I am a railway fettler.

So I don't think 'fettle' is wrong in the context of setting up a turntable, though I agree that to talk of 'plumbing in' a cable is.

[guydarryl]

Cheers Joe

Quite a bit of research there which just goes to highlight my limited experience

By the way Daniel, your "finite" objectivist conclusion regarding the only thing that a record player has to do is rotate at 33.3 rpm; care to justify?