Observations on the SP10 Project

[Neonknight]

I have had the SP10 up and playing for a week or two now. I temporarily mounted the String Theory arm on it with the ZYX 4D cartridge. Over the years I have owned the lower tier SP turntables, the 25 and then the 15. Neither of them stayed long as they did a terrible job of getting the harmonics and decay of notes right. Everything was truncated, and just difficult to listen to. However, this SP 10 is a different story, it most certainly is. This table is coherent, detailed, refined, and even keeled player I have had in my house. There is nothing that it does noticeably wrong, and it is capable of low level resolution that is lacking in other tables I have heard. Such a balanced presentation tonally, and while not rich and plump sounding, its not threadbare or grey either. I am not sure how I struck this balance, and how much the multi density plinth contributes to the overall sound, or the wood tone arm I am currently using. But I do know is that this is a winning combination.

In the great system consolidation of 2016/2017 I was tempted to sell off this drive unit without listening to it. But I was waiting on a plinth for it as I had already ordered and paid for one. I am incredibly glad I took the time to listen to it. I have never met a Technics table that sounded very good, and I was so skeptical that this one would. But I am pretty well thinking this is going to be my big dog table. I had a friend over to listen to it last week, as he has heard the system progress through set up. Lance was just head over heels on how it sounded, and he has been around hi fi for a number of years. He is a belt drive table guy, with the same experience of lesser DD tables just sounding only OK. But at the end of the listening time, he thought mighty highly of the SP 10.

Lance wants me to keep this arm on the table, and it does sound excellent. However it is a smidge too long and it creates some mounting issues. I need to find a solution to raise the brass bushing Riggle uses for an arm tube about an inch. At the moment it cannot sit flush in the arm bord, and if it did the counterweight would hit the back edge of the table. So I need to elevate it about an inch above the arm board and get it to be rigidly mounted. There is going to be a challenge of drilling a 1 1/4" hole within an 1/8" of the edge of the arm board. Keeping the veneer from splintering off is going to be a challenge. I am leaning towards using a hole saw to do this job. If I can get this solved, then this arm will stay on the table as it is a winning combination.

I have also purchased a 16.8 pound stainless steel platter for it, which has been an upgrade that started in Japan for these tables. I also believe the folks at Pass Labs do this heavy platter upgrade on their SP 10. I will order a thrust pad for it, there is one made of Torlon 4301, which is reported to be an improved material over the original Nylatron. With those three changes in place that should do me for the SP10. Even as it sits I am really pleased with this table. Actually this system reconfiguration has come together incredibly well. I took a flyer on some gear that is outside of my normal mode of operation, and I have been very pleased with the results. The Musical Fidelity Nu Vista M3 is a great amplifier. The Technics surpasses expectations. The Mac Mini with Singxer SU1 converter and the PS Audio LANRover make for an enjoyable music server for my Audio Magic Kukama DAC. This is a great hobby, and sometimes stepping out of your comfort zone and exploring what is possible yields unexpected dividends.

[Lindsayt]

Neonknight, when you spoke about the heavy platter it reminded me of stories of people standing on SP10 platters and turming them on to demonstrate how much torque they have.

https://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_f ... 16&t=52243

How much did you pay for the SP10, plinth, heavy platter, String Theory arm , Zyx 4D?

[_D_S_J_R_]

I'm very good at peeing on people's parades, so continued apologies.

You're happy with the deck as-is and as designed by Technics, who must have known what they were on about, surely? What exactly is a heavier platter going to achieve? We've had all this with the SL1210, the whole 'dynamics' of the drive system being completely altered by its use and I believe now that the current fashion has returned to lower mass platters more like the one designed for it! The motor drive system is very complex and surely was optimised for the platter mass as manufactured. By all means experiment with mats or 'plates' if that floats you boat, but as I'm shooting in the dark here with no objective evidence to 'prove' the different platter really is better, I don't know. Again, apologies if I'm peeing all over your proposed exciting next step.

See, I come from the Decca cartridge vs. master tape school. The masters I've heard and owned basic copies of at one time, often sounded lean, dry in acoustic and sometimes very much a 'multi-mono' mix, intended for the finished vinyl to blend it a it more. One such album was 'Heavy Weather' by Weather Report -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlee09qmnv4

which in copy-master version could be almost relentless. Making the platter even more massive may add some 'weight' to the sound that shouldn't be there, I don't know, but I/we are in the realms of getting a 'sound' at home we like, which may or may not be truthful to the basic recording. I'd have thought your big JBL's would make mincemeat of an inadequate source though. Decca cartridges with posh diamonds, properly rebuilt and mounted in Decca-Pods and of course, set up in a matching arm and turntable with care, sound amongst the closest to master quality I've heard - until they fail, which practically all of them do at some point at least once, even the expensive recent ones apparently. The ZYX MC's weren't bad either as they had some bite and sparkle to them which isn't the peaky 'zip' of a modern Lyra or some AT's for instance. The Rega Apheta is wild, but showed so much promise - I haven't heard the mk2 version, let alone the cheapy though.

... All ramblings of a bonkers mad-man trying to put some perspective on 'stuff,' so just ignore me as most others do. Hope you enjoy what you're doing though, but as I've tried to say many times, try to get to acoustic gigs, or intimate live jazz performances where PA systems don't feature. Your JBL speakers should get you 80% there, the rest being in the sources you use I reckon...

[Neonknight]

I'm very good at peeing on people's parades, so continued apologies.

You're happy with the deck as-is and as designed by Technics, who must have known what they were on about, surely? What exactly is a heavier platter going to achieve? We've had all this with the SL1210, the whole 'dynamics' of the drive system being completely altered by its use and I believe now that the current fashion has returned to lower mass platters more like the one designed for it! The motor drive system is very complex and surely was optimised for the platter mass as manufactured. By all means experiment with mats or 'plates' if that floats you boat, but as I'm shooting in the dark here with no objective evidence to 'prove' the different platter really is better, I don't know. Again, apologies if I'm peeing all over your proposed exciting next step.

See, I come from the Decca cartridge vs. master tape school. The masters I've heard and owned basic copies of at one time, often sounded lean, dry in acoustic and sometimes very much a 'multi-mono' mix, intended for the finished vinyl to blend it a it more. One such album was 'Heavy Weather' by Weather Report -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlee09qmnv4

which in copy-master version could be almost relentless. Making the platter even more massive may add some 'weight' to the sound that shouldn't be there, I don't know, but I/we are in the realms of getting a 'sound' at home we like, which may or may not be truthful to the basic recording. I'd have thought your big JBL's would make mincemeat of an inadequate source though. Decca cartridges with posh diamonds, properly rebuilt and mounted in Decca-Pods and of course, set up in a matching arm and turntable with care, sound amongst the closest to master quality I've heard - until they fail, which practically all of them do at some point at least once, even the expensive recent ones apparently. The ZYX MC's weren't bad either as they had some bite and sparkle to them which isn't the peaky 'zip' of a modern Lyra or some AT's for instance. The Rega Apheta is wild, but showed so much promise - I haven't heard the mk2 version, let alone the cheapy though.

... All ramblings of a bonkers mad-man trying to put some perspective on 'stuff,' so just ignore me as most others do. Hope you enjoy what you're doing though, but as I've tried to say many times, try to get to acoustic gigs, or intimate live jazz performances where PA systems don't feature. Your JBL speakers should get you 80% there, the rest being in the sources you use I reckon...

Oh sure I hear what you are saying, and it is something I thought about a bit myself. Yes I like the table as it sits, so this will have to be an improvement to make it worth purchasing. According to the ad on Audiogon I have a one week trial. If it does not make a noticeable improvement, then we return to the stock platter and call it a day. The Japanese have been doing this for many a year, and as I understand it Pass Labs does it with the SP 10's they use for their listening sessions. Since I can't say for sure it will or won't work, I decided to explore this opportunity and see what the results are. Maybe its better, maybe its worse, or maybe just a push. I figure the worst case scenario is I pay shipping cots and have my curiosity sated.

But yes, as the table sits this is excellent sound. I am just turning over a rock and seeing if there are any gains to be had. If not, that is ok to, and I can figure out a permanent mount for this arm and call it good.

[Classicrock]

The new Technics 1200G despite it's looks is supposed to perform as good as if not better than an SP10 mkII. At £3K its expensive but by the time you buy an SP10 refurbish and purchase a specialist plinth, add arm etc I don't thing there is that much difference. Have seen ex display stock at 2.5K.

[Neonknight]

The new Technics 1200G despite it's looks is supposed to perform as good as if not better than an SP10 mkII. At £3K its expensive but by the time you buy an SP10 refurbish and purchase a specialist plinth, add arm etc I don't thing there is that much difference. Have seen ex display stock at 2.5K.

I have heard that before on a lot of product. Would have to have one side by side to prove it to me. Because this one is really damn fine sounding as it sits right now. The drive unit might certainly be better, my concern would be platter mass and chassis ability to deal with resonance. That was always my dislike of the last variations of the 1200, I never found it to be a good sounding table. Not sure if the new arm is all that either.

Personally I would withhold judgement on one till I got a chance to do a side by side. But the 10 is here now, and really have no desire to replace it.