Glass vs Acrylic Platters

[Martinnj]

Hello all,
I have a Systemdek IIX turntable now with a rewired Rega R200 arm (by Johnnie at Audio Origami) with a Pete Riggle VTAF. Go the Rega arm cheap on fleabay so that I could easily swap out some different types of cartridge (MM, MC & MI etc) and the VTAF so that I could try some different platter/ platter mat combos. It seems from reading posts on various forums that acrylic is normally recommended or liked better. However thus far, having purchased an Isokinetic 10mm acrylic platter, i have to say I prefer the sound of the original glass platter with a simple cork mat.
Wondered if any one else had a similar experience or whether its just my preference or the acrylic platter I brought is no good!
Interested to hear of other peoples experiences....
Martin

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

It is a minefield as with all mechanical coupling, take no notice of anyone else's opinion, all it means is they found a synergy that worked for them. With your TT, your ears, your music, it could all be different. Trust your ears and try different things. I built a few TT back in the early 90's and glass was my fav platter material with a felt mat, but again that will not apply to you apart from as an option.

[alfafan123]

Hi Martin,

Some years back I tried an Edwards Audio TT-AP acrylic platter on a Rega RP1 (replacing the phenolic resin stock platter) and heard no improvement. Similarly I tried the TT-AP acrylic platter on my old Rega P3 2000 ( replacing the stock 12mm glass platter) and I like you marginally preferred the stock glass platter and felt mat which seemed to give a slightly more forward presentation to the sound. However to confuse matters ToneAudio replaced the phenolic resin platter on a RP1 with a glass platter and heard no significant difference.

My instinct would be to stick with the original design including glass platter.I am not sure all this tweakery is as good as it is cracked up to be....and can lead to advanced audiophilia for which there is currently no easy cure!

[_D_S_J_R_]

Phenolic resin = Bakelite isn't it? Good material I suspect and to me it looks better than turned MDF... The RP1 is reported to be better than the P2 that preceded it and I don't know if Alfafan will confirm, but I think the finish has improved as the years have gone on...

We never stocked the Systemdek IIX for one reason only - and sound quality had nothing at all to do with it! It needs to be set up which is time consuming and on a busy Saturday with a customer itching to take the goods away, it took but fifteen minutes to check over a Rega, fit the cartridge and run it for a track or so before showing how to correctly pack the thing for safe transit..

I know Audionote have added a zero or two to the price tag and fitted an acrylic platter, but the basic deck remains superb and as long as you have enough room underneath, the R200 (and bigger brother on the PL71) remains one of the very best tonearms of this type imo and ime, irrespective of cost and the acres of stainless steel of say, the classic FR64S arm and the R200 'sounds' really good if properly mounted. I like cork mats but didn't discover their talents until recent post Rega-selling years and I use a few myself dotted around on all my decks...

Seriously, the Doc is right and as long as you sort of have a reference in your head (good digital for me, but others may feel different), then you should be able to fine tune with ease. The glass platter may be heavier (better wow figures?) and remember that there are different 'grades' of acrylic used. I believe the type as used by PT was extremely expensive and that was before machining...

I believe Systemdek still exist and it might be worth looking them up and getting in touch to see what, if anything else, they may have done to improve the deck in the intervening years. An external motor supply of whatever type may be useful and possibly a hardwood armboard a la 'Speedy-Steve.'

Float glass as a platter is basically very good I'm told, as it requires little machining, has excellent? mass distribution (no hidden air bubbles) and so it lends itself to a less expensive deck very well - I know Roy Gandy has had bad publicity here and I once found his personality frustratingly 'superior,' but using float glass was a good and then cheaper thing to do for a tiny company in the mid 70's as aluminium castings *back then* were more expensive back then (he told me, so make of that what you will).

Good luck with your platters and mats.. You may find a different cartridge may need some different materials, but the deck itself is pretty 'honest' I remember...

[Martinnj]

Thanks for the above comments, really appreciated.
I appreciate that sound is a personal thing and people have different preferences. I suppose I am just keen to hear what the artist has taken the trouble to record as it is meant to be heard but i guess unless you've heard the master tapes you don't know whether you are or not!?!
As to digital, I listened to the Dave Brubeck Quartet track "Unsquare Dance" via my lossless file and from the Vinyl and was amazed at the difference. When listening to the vinyl the hand claps seemed like they were in the room...
Have to say the best upgrade that I have got so far, vinyl wise, if a record cleaning machine, things so much clearer when a record is clean.
Martin

[Martinnj]

I should also say how excellent the service I received from Johnnie at Audio Origami was in rewiring the cheap Rega R200 I picked up on eBay was. I have to say I was surprised that the arm sounded better than the Scottish built Linn Akito arm when fitted to the Systemdek with the Riggle VTAF. Looking forward to swapping some cartridges in and out....
Martin

[_D_S_J_R_]

The Kestrels are funny things - I know them better than I have any right to as Martin Nobbs, one of the founders, is an old friend of mine from college days (currently looking after some TDL's I was recently given and which I'll need to sell) and the designer, Clive Gibson, is an old pal from his work with Elac and TDL, before starting Musical technology with Martin. These Kestrels should have sold for double the money as the manufacturer made less on a pair than the dealer did but they have one flaw, and it's one I can't live with any more (all MT speakers including the pro models using this stock tweeter have it to one degree or another) and that is that this tweeter is worked too hard too low down, giving a slight 'liveliness' that isn't always welcome. This becomes harshness all too easily.

Why the above paragraph? Because the digital and analogue sides 'should' sound fairly similar and if they don't, it's my view something's slightly amiss! The clamshell Mira and DAC ought to have SSP as they're nearest to the Rega Couple in sound (and almost certainly better as in better 'connection' with the performers - yes I know, it's a subjective thing). 'De-jangling' the Kestrels would be all but impossible as ducking the level of the tweeter would take away some of the 'air' although it sweetens the tone a little I found. Having heard some a few weeks ago, I'm increasingly wondering if the expensive Visatons as used in NVA speakers, could be persuaded into the holes left by the Vifa's - you may need to do some reading up if this ever interested you. The designer wanted a metal dome tweeter to go with the metal cone main driver.

I've gone off on one - just been for a lovely walk down by the 'Ferry' and feel chilled for the first time in weeks - so there!

http://www.stacey.peak-media.co.uk/feli ... ul2008.htm


P.S. The Akito is the biggest insult to tonearms (imo it's shite!) since the Intek was to amps (same reason!)...



P.P.S. One brilliant CD to judge the 'jangling effect' I'm going on about is the first album by America. On the MT Kestrel and larger stand mounted PM30, designed for the pro market, the strummed guitars, well, jangled unnaturally to me. On the TDL Studio 1m. also with Clive G's designed bass-mid unit, they didn't and neither did they on the conical MT Hawk model, which sold for over a grand at the time, but had a rather re-worked tweeter enabling it to work lower down.

[guydarryl]

I've gone off on one - just been for a lovely walk down by the 'Ferry' and feel chilled for the first time in weeks - so there!

http://www.stacey.peak-media.co.uk/feli ... ul2008.htm

apologies for thread drift - but brilliant day in Suffolk, very sunny. Did you go for fish and chips at the ferry?

[Alfi]

I simply love Suffolk and to me the Woodbridge area was a nice weeks break back in the late 90's for us, I hope its still as nice a location - just loved it!


Alfi

[alfafan123]

Yes Rega has improved the finish on the RP1 and mine is now quite presentable