Where have we gone wrong.

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_D_S_J_R_
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Re: Where have we gone wrong.

Unread post by _D_S_J_R_ »

Firebug1 wrote:Can't understand big hifi brands like krell, mark levinson, mcinntosh, accuphase...and people who are willing to pay anything to get products from those brands.
I think I'm right when I say that many US audio enthusiasts are blessed with very large listening rooms, where a medium sized UK speaker would look like a tiny midi-system box to them. Big box speakers with loads of drivers often have silly loads, so amps needed to be designed for them I think. Later on, there's a market gap for a 50W Class A amp that's actually nearly double the rated power, and so the Krell KSA 50 was born. bring in big Maggie and Apogee panels with cruel loads and off you go to the exalted huge monster amps out there and silly speakers that depend on them.

The early Levinson amps were reported to be amazingly good, but the fascination of Hifi News with everything that UK distributor Absolute Sounds sold tended to prevent much if any Levinson being reviewed here I'm told. Krell was THE maker over here and the bigger they got, for a while the harsher they seemed to be too, so fruity sounding ARC valve preamps were used with them. I must admit to having loads of respect for the Krell KSA 50S that was presented to me recently. It HAS got better and better, but there's so much 'stuff' between input and output in comparison with, say, an NVA amp, which seems to have a fairly simple sonic path with apparently, only a little out to the side to help stabilise it all.

There was an interesting reviewer, who was an expert at seemingly saying one thing, but between the lines another. His commercial interests were always there, just out of sight though and items going into his reference system always came at a price.
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Dr Bunsen Honeydew
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Re: Where have we gone wrong.

Unread post by Dr Bunsen Honeydew »

America is a different market run differently, for example you could always buy Naim amplifiers their for less than here, and in the case of home grown US product less than half the price sold here.

It is here that the biggest rip-offs occur. Do you know you can go to Singapore on holiday and buy a £10k hi-fi for a price that pays for the trip there as well as shipping the stuff back compared with the UK.

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Re: Where have we gone wrong.

Unread post by Firebug1 »

_D_S_J_R_ wrote:
Firebug1 wrote:Can't understand big hifi brands like krell, mark levinson, mcinntosh, accuphase...and people who are willing to pay anything to get products from those brands.
I think I'm right when I say that many US audio enthusiasts are blessed with very large listening rooms, where a medium sized UK speaker would look like a tiny midi-system box to them. Big box speakers with loads of drivers often have silly loads, so amps needed to be designed for them I think. Later on, there's a market gap for a 50W Class A amp that's actually nearly double the rated power, and so the Krell KSA 50 was born. bring in big Maggie and Apogee panels with cruel loads and off you go to the exalted huge monster amps out there and silly speakers that depend on them.

The early Levinson amps were reported to be amazingly good, but the fascination of Hifi News with everything that UK distributor Absolute Sounds sold tended to prevent much if any Levinson being reviewed here I'm told. Krell was THE maker over here and the bigger they got, for a while the harsher they seemed to be too, so fruity sounding ARC valve preamps were used with them. I must admit to having loads of respect for the Krell KSA 50S that was presented to me recently. It HAS got better and better, but there's so much 'stuff' between input and output in comparison with, say, an NVA amp, which seems to have a fairly simple sonic path with apparently, only a little out to the side to help stabilise it all.

There was an interesting reviewer, who was an expert at seemingly saying one thing, but between the lines another. His commercial interests were always there, just out of sight though and items going into his reference system always came at a price.
In America bigger is always better... Here in Finland is atleast one hifinut who has owned Apogee Scintillas when they were new(in here) and he says that only amps that could drive them effortless was big Krell monoblocks 500w each or so but they draw so much current in startup that allmost every start up fuse in his house fusebox blow up...
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Re: Where have we gone wrong.

Unread post by Classicrock »

Everything's cheaper in the states - records are practically half the price there and the Hoffmanites constantly moan about cost of vinyl. Rega is more expensive which makes me wonder why it appears to sell so well there judging by the forums. The big flashy US brands make a lot more sense when you look at domestic prices. The voltage difference acts as a barrier protecting rip off UK importers.
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Dr Bunsen Honeydew
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Re: Where have we gone wrong.

Unread post by Dr Bunsen Honeydew »

It is easy to change voltage.

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Re: Where have we gone wrong.

Unread post by Lindsayt »

I think it's poor design for big box speakers with loads of drivers to be demanding loads.

All you need is a combination of 16 ohm and 8 ohm drivers wired in parallel and series in the right way to maintain a nominal 8 ohm load.

I sometimes wonder if low impedance designs are produced just to get an artificial boost to the headline sensitivity specification.

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Dr Bunsen Honeydew
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Re: Where have we gone wrong.

Unread post by Dr Bunsen Honeydew »

Trouble is Lyndsay nominal load is not the whole story. When people talk about impedance per usual it is ignorance, what they really mean is DC resistance. Yes that can be stabilised at 8ohm, but the impedance which is an AC measurement, which varies according to frequency starts to get all over the place with multiple drivers. Remember a speaker driver has a coil in it so it is a reactive load not just resistive, and series and parallel inductance and even small amounts of capacitance in the coils creates anomalies and along with the LCR of the crossover can even create virtual short circuits at very high frequencies. It is that old bugbear of phase again. It is much better not to multiply drivers unless driven separately. The other problem is manufacturers use parallel wiring as it lower the impedance and makes it sound louder. This is musically wrong and worse than series wiring which is musically far better even if you lose a little SPL. Ask DQ I got him to experiment and he found out ;)

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Lindsayt
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Re: Where have we gone wrong.

Unread post by Lindsayt »

For anyone with 30 minutes to spare, this is one person's take on the history of audio:

http://www.nutshellhifi.com/library/tinyhistory1.html

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Dr Bunsen Honeydew
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Re: Where have we gone wrong.

Unread post by Dr Bunsen Honeydew »

We have gone wrong by being deflected by ego based bullshit. Wrong people set up as heros and role models, wrong ideas perpetrated as myths. Too many people stuck in a "think" and cannot see (hear) beyond it. Some even when they are shown it.

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