Where have we gone wrong.

[Classicrock]

Just checked and you can now get Audax units from Falcon including the HDA units used in my Missions. Looks like most speakers using these are now serviceable. Back to the subject - I doubt Shaw could run a medium sized business and do all the design these days. I assume that these people design in terms of overseeing and approving the work or conceptualise as PQ of Audio Note admits - as we all know Andy Grove is the designer.

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

Yes PQ is one of the few who tells the truth about it.

[SteveTheShadow]

Looking at that crossover; all I will say is that it is more difficult to design a speaker with a simple crossover than it is to design something like that.
To design a speaker with a simple crossover requires careful choice of drive units.
The mid/bass drivers need to possess good mechanical characteristics and a reasonably wide operating bandwidth so that a judixious application of a little bit of mechanical damping will bring their frequency response down to a nice crossover point, which is outside the 2-4KHz midband, where the ear is most sensitive to nasties. The tweeter is then far easier to integrate and can be made to "disappear" so that the frequency range becomes seamless.
A simple capacitor crossover does away with combing and phase anomalies, there is less to get in the way of the music, resulting in far more realistic reproduction.

A capacitor will put a 90 degree phase shift starting at the crossover point and going upwards because with AC through a cap, current will lead the voltage applied by 90 degrees. So experimenting with which way round the tweeter is connected will generally cause the sound to snap into focus one way round or the other.

The minute you start using steeper order filters, all sorts of phase effects start to intrude, more reactive components in the signal path and you have to start putting impedance correction (Zobel) networks across drivers or the speaker can become a b'stard to drive
A good sounding speaker can be made with this method, but wouldn't it have been better to have chosen better drivers in the first place ?
The answer is that a few inductors and caps are a sight less expensive than a good driver and you can use the complication as selling point to convince the punters, they are getting a thoroughly researched, high quality product.
I remember a 1974 ad for the Spendor BC1 really bigging up the fact that the model did not have a mere crossover, but a "16 element frequency dividing network" WHOOOOOOOOOOO! Gimme one now!

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

EXACTLY

Now add to that a solid cabinet, not thin walled BBC crap or virtual cardboard, and all the wadding and damping can disappear. Complex crossover try to make bad or cheap drivers work and wadding and damping try to make cheap or badly made cabinets work, same stupidity.

[_D_S_J_R_]

Yes PQ is one of the few who tells the truth about it.

He's one of the biggest sh****s of them all time, the prices he charges for very dated products... He has form in the uk audio industry.

[SteveTheShadow]

Oh and don't get me started on baffle step compensation circuits, that are needed because of the trend to as narrow a front aspect as possible. These bloody things are death to good sound and are needed because of the rapid fall off in upper bass due to the narrowness of the baffle in relation to the main driver(s). Uncorrected, this problem causes a hole in the response, resulting in a hard thin sound.
In a simple crossovered speaker with a main driver above 6 inches in diameter, this problem is less pronounced but is there nonetheless. However it is easily ameliorated, by simply placing the speaker against the wall. Even response good sound, domestically acceptable, jobzagoodun.
Correct the problem with what's called a BSC network in a modern speaker and you add yet more complication to your product and ensure that you now have to have the damn things in the middle of the room to avoid boom.
Ah but now you can sell the product as having to be placed out in the room because it is "built without compromise for the highest possible overall sound quality and ultimate depth of stereo image" See all the buzzwords I managed to insert there.

Cynical...who...me ?

[Dr Bunsen Honeydew]

Yes PQ is one of the few who tells the truth about it.

He's one of the biggest sh****s of them all time, the prices he charges for very dated products... He has form in the uk audio industry.

I agree, the comment was about at least he is honest about not being an audio designer. Others aren't and want all the kudos or hero worship they can attract.

[Macca]

Good post that Steve.

Have to say about Audio Note the times I have heard their stuff (most recently at the Cranage Hall show, it has always sounded very good. Not keen on the speakers, though, don't like that corner placement thing

[zebbo]

Oh and don't get me started on baffle step compensation circuits, that are needed because of the trend to as narrow a front aspect as possible. These bloody things are death to good sound and are needed because of the rapid fall off in upper bass due to the narrowness of the baffle in relation to the main driver(s). Uncorrected, this problem causes a hole in the response, resulting in a hard thin sound.
In a simple crossovered speaker with a main driver above 6 inches in diameter, this problem is less pronounced but is there nonetheless. However it is easily ameliorated, by simply placing the speaker against the wall. Even response good sound, domestically acceptable, jobzagoodun.
Correct the problem with what's called a BSC network in a modern speaker and you add yet more complication to your product and ensure that you now have to have the damn things in the middle of the room to avoid boom.
Ah but now you can sell the product as having to be placed out in the room because it is "built without compromise for the highest possible overall sound quality and ultimate depth of stereo image" See all the buzzwords I managed to insert there.

Cynical...who...me ?

But your speakers are VERY skinny......

[SteveTheShadow]

Yes they are, but they were rolled off, with twin subwoofers taking over the bass duties, so baffle step was not a problem because there were no low frequencies being produced by the satellites in the picture. The speakers in the pic were deliberately designed from the outset to require assistance from a sub.
My present ones use an 8 inch driver, are full range, 5ft tall because of quarter wave loading and are placed against the wall; no problems.
It's all about knowing what you want to achieve, knowing what you are doing and why, and sticking to your objective.
I would argue that the marketing dept dictates the modern speaker industry, so you end up with hundreds of me too products that are neither one thing nor the other; the main differences being types of finish and degree of bling.