Historic TT Project

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Dr Bunsen Honeydew
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Re: Historic TT Project

Unread post by Dr Bunsen Honeydew »

It is the same with all cults, and the flat earth was a cult. They will not believe until their ears and brains are finally opened, it is like breaking through a blockage, and some never will, famous reviewers amoungst them, and then when / if they realise what arses they have been it causes two reactions - denial and hiding or anger and responding.

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Re: Historic TT Project

Unread post by _D_S_J_R_ »

Dr Bunsen Honeydew wrote:
_D_S_J_R_ wrote:
selby wrote:Holy crap just looked up that Trio L07 D what an engineering beauty!
...And Rega Planars sounded better in a musical sense... :animals-dogrun:
Dave that is complete madness, I wish I could show you. You are getting better but that brainwash really runs deeep.
Now who's getting all po faced about that piece of beautifully finished angle iron??? :lol:

Now, you obviously don't know me well enough yet and my time for Hifi forums is going to be more limited in future, so I'd better clarify my post above.

Back in the 70's, specialist turntable supports just didn't exist, so decks like these were just plonked on whatever was available. Almost all direct drives, from bottom to top of the range, suffered mid bass issues as a result of this (a major potential vinyl flaw ime), where even early Rega's had a lighter and more 'agile' kind of presentation and don't forget the R200 tonearm [edit - not the RB series], which is still one of the best of the breed, despite lack of adjustment.

Fast forward to today. We seem to acknowledge far more how the turntable 'system' works, we take huge care in siting and setting up (or we should) and this has a dramatic effect in the quality of music we get of a vinyl record. Tonearms, cartridges and especially phono stages in many cases, have come on in leaps and bounds - and we can thank digital for this IMO - so taking a good working L-07D, siting/isolating it properly, fitting a better tonearm and a modern cartridge and phono stage would, I feel, transform its performance over the noises it could exhibit in a typical UK room and system to something awesome.

My pal Chris emailed me remembering how bad his Technics SL120 sounded *at the time!* The structure was so live you could almost play tunes on the plinth while playing a record I remember. I had the same issues with the SL1500's I've used recently until I removed the lid when playing. Other medium mass decks like the SL110 (I still love the appearance of it) would probably need to be sat in a lined sand-box or similar to sort it out..

So PLEASE don't tar me with the Linn brush. That was torn out of me when I first heard Notts Analogue decks, the cheapest of which absolutely demolishing the LP12 in all the areas the LP12 was supposed to excel and more besides. The Fruitbox has moved on too since 1988, but the prices have become stupid too, making the thing extremely poor value.
Last edited by _D_S_J_R_ on Tue Aug 11, 2015 11:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Historic TT Project

Unread post by Dr Bunsen Honeydew »

You could use the LO7 D on the floor and it would piss on a Rega. My PL71 can sit on anything solid and still play music. Why do you want to change the arm, there is nothing wrong with it, replace it with a RB300? don't make me laugh. You are still far too Rega centric, they make nothing beyond averagely good shop fodder, and never have done.

A badly constructed TT that lack solid engineering (i.e. Rega and Linn) needs the solid platform to give them what they should have had in the first place. It is typical flat earth, making a bullshitted asset out of an obvious deficiency.

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Re: Historic TT Project

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I've never rated the Rega Planar 2 and 3 since I heard a demo of a 3 against an LP12. Same cartridge on each. The Rega sounded like it was sanding off the top of all the transients when compared to the LP12. And that to me is the opposite of musicality.

I'm not sure that tonearms, cartridges and phono amps have come on leaps and bounds.

For tonearms, seems all you need is something rigid with top quality bearings. EG Fidelity Research FR64S, EMT 929.
Cartridges. Ortofon SPU, Deccas, EMT TSD15's are all fine cartridges.
Phono amps: the built in ones in the top of the range Japanese 1970's pre-amps and integrateds seem to do a decent enough job.

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Re: Historic TT Project

Unread post by _D_S_J_R_ »

SPU's are archaic and I didn't care for the Doc's when I heard it last (too soft). We'll see when he gets it going again.. The FR64 S is next to useless with many cartridges and despite the mass, doesn't perform as well as its reputation would suggest (it's just loads of nicely finished stainless steel - don't buy with your eyes). Decca's are magical but self destruct regularly with 'normal' use. The EMT used to sound more like CD, so most vinyl lovers won't care much for it... The phono amps in most of the 1970's Jap amps I sold were adequate, nothing more. In fact, some of these amps sounded even more dire via phono than they did via the line stages...

I take it none of you have ever heard a Rega RB arm in a suitable deck? It sounds superb in a NAS deck for example and not at all as the reputation amongst flat earthers would suggest - it didn't work too well on an LP12 in 1983 and I believe it was this that sealed its fate...
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Re: Historic TT Project

Unread post by Dr Bunsen Honeydew »

Do you want engineering reasons why the Rega RB arms will never work properly as they should beyond a selected few, it is in the archive, here is a hint, no two arms can ever be the same!!. The R200 was so much a better arm than the RB300 it was laughable.

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Re: Historic TT Project

Unread post by _D_S_J_R_ »

How so? I'd have thought the castings would have been more than consistent enough and the holes for the races are exceptionally accurately reamed out. I'm not an engineer and wouldn't expect a straight answer from their engineer either - I took him on trust...

No matter, it's all in my past now, but I did sell a lot of Rega's and set all of them up, including arms sold separately. I also respect the SME's as well, but they're not liked 'out there' either...
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Re: Historic TT Project

Unread post by Dr Bunsen Honeydew »

Who told you they were castings. They are die castings, a very different thing, requiring a die, which is a tool which wears out, also not being machined from tube or block there is inconsistency as to mass, weight, even impurities and bubbles in the injection process. So the tool wears = inconsistency. The injected medium varies = inconsistency. The process needs constant temperature which cannot be maintained = inconsistency. So that is why really good ones are selected and they become RB1000 or is it now RB3000, I lose count, and the crap goes to RB250. Why do you think there are so many models.

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Re: Historic TT Project

Unread post by Lindsayt »

DSJR, how many Pioneer Exclusive pre-amps did you sell?

There was a Rega RB arm on a Garrard with a Decca type cartridge at the Halloween bake-off. It sounded as if the cartridge wasn't clamped in the grooves properly. As if the arm bearings were struggling to cope with the amount of energy put into them by the cartridge.

My EMT cartridges might sound like CD in terms of them both being tonally neutral. But when I've compared the same albums on CD and via my EMT's they haven't sounded particularly similar.


Why don't Rega cast the bearing housings so that they're oversized and then grind them down to exactly the right size?
Would that one machining operation cost too much for them?

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Re: Historic TT Project

Unread post by Dr Bunsen Honeydew »

Lindsayt wrote: Why don't Rega cast the bearing housings so that they're oversized and then grind them down to exactly the right size?
Would that one machining operation cost too much for them?
It is die cast as one piece which makes your suggestion impractical and it would cut profit. Apart from a few selected ones that have had enormous care given to them, like the one in Paul Messengers TT they are crap and have sold so well as a marketing exercise. I suggest that there should be loan R200 set up to lend to RB series owners so they can hear how much better the old arm is, even if the bias belt has rotted away.

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