Flat earth nexus of forces

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terrybooth
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Flat earth nexus of forces

Unread post by terrybooth »

Anyone reading this forum is well aware of the impact of the Linn-Naim axis - basically a combination of marketing and anti-competitive commercial practices; but was there something else which contributed to the growth of the flat earth? I'm thinking of the poor quality of vinyl production at the time.

What prompted this was the purchase of two second hand LPs from either end of the 80s. The Tourists: Luminous Basement (1980) and Dusty Springfield: Reputation (1990). Now, it may be that both records could do with a good clean (although both are superficially clean) but both of them seemed to me to suffer from the production techniques at the time both in the studio and at the record press. They both sound 'squashed' and 'closed' in, perhaps the former more than the latter, no lows, no highs and a sound stage like a gnat's ass. The vinyl is thin and flimsy and, if I remember correctly, this was around about the age of the 'vinyl shortage'. Eventually, I put on Thelonius Monk: Monk's Dream (a modern press of music originally released in 1961. Now it was more like having musicians in the room, there was a stage with piano on the right, sax in the middle and drums and bass over on the left, there were lows and highs and each instrument had its own voice and character, etc. etc.

Now, here's my contention:
  • Most people buying this kit (like me at the time) listened mainly to contemporary rock/pop artists
  • Most people buying this kit did not have much exposure to live music, their reference point was the radio - Radio 1 and John Peel, probably
  • People who listened to Jazz or Classical tended not to buy this kit
In other words what we have is an attempt to gild the turd that was pop/rock music production. How many people (ike me) 'upgraded' their kit in the hope that it would make the music sound better how many (like me) were ultimately disappointed. If well recorded and pressed vinyl had been available at the time, would the flat earth have developed in the way it did?
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Re: Flat earth nexus of forces

Unread post by Dr Bunsen Honeydew »

I think you give them too much credit for technical competence. The principle the flat earth followed was that of the bully who stood in front of you shouting so you couldn't ignore it, about the same subtlety as two hippos feckin'

Home PA system, as that is what people were getting used to, which is why so little classical music was sold to flat earthers - apart from the 1812 so they could have some big bangs and go "cor! listen to that". I call it the Pink Floyd helicopter syndrome. Who seriously gives a ferk if a helicopter shakes the room, is it music :roll: no its a helicopter. In reality if you stood next to one without ear defenders you would be deaf in no time.

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Re: Flat earth nexus of forces

Unread post by brit-pop »

At the height of Linn/Naim popularity I could never have afforded their kit and so much of it was ignored by me. Throughout the 90s I 'made do' with a system which comprised pioneer stable platter disc players, an a400 (a much hyped amp which did however give years of loyal service), mission and ruark speakers and technics turntables (yes I was a DJ as was every other idiot back then).

I think your comment on the quality of vinyl available stands however not all of it was bad. I have an original pressing of Zappa's zoot allures on vinyl so thin you almost spot through it. It's also that grey stuff rather than jet black which I think suggests a lower quality material being used. Do you know it's one of the best sounding LPs I own. Really alive and full sound. It confounds me every time I play it.

As for Pink Floyd's helicopters I had to reproduce a lot of samples for our live tribute show and spent some time in this one to ensure the panning was just right. After you've heard this and the explosion at the end of 'in the flesh' on a 12kw PA, no hifi system is really going to compare so why even bother.

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Re: Flat earth nexus of forces

Unread post by Lindsayt »

I care if the Helicopter from the Wall shakes the room or not. If it doesn't that implies the system is lacking in bass extension / impact. It's the same with the heartbeats from the Darkside of the Moon. And I like my bass drums, bass guitars and bass synths to be reproduced in the right quantity and quality. Having said that, you don't need Pink Floyd to decide if a system has decent bass or not, as just about any rock or pop album will be able to tell you that.

There's good and bad recordings from every era. Dire Straits, the darlings of so many Flat Earthers came out with well produced and manufactured vinyl albums with a decent dynamic range, although their first two albums do have rather bass heavy mixes, which flatters lean speakers like Kans.

My copy of Luminous Basement, which I've had since the 1980's, sounds pretty good to me for a New Wave type album. It's got a bit of budget recording / home brew feel to it, which I think adds to the charm. In the same way that Tubeway Army's first album sounds better to me for the rawness of the recording and musical performance than their 2nd album which is more polished but lacking in bite.

I think that Flatearth would have developed regardless of anything happening in the music industry. Ivor T's marketing was so strong that he was able to get a monopoly on hi-fi magazine recommendations, which led to a huge amount of sales in those pre-Internet days.

And an LP12, Naim, Brik system is not a bad sounding system. It'll sound considerably better than most of those plasticky, built down to a budget rack systems advertised *, and considerably better than a Dual 505 or Rega Planar 3 into Nad 3020, AR18's. So, there was just enough substance to the marketing hype to convince so many punters that Linn Naim were the "best in the world".




*This one looks like one of the better rack systems and might give Linn Naim a run for their money:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFqbvIB2q8A

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Re: Flat earth nexus of forces

Unread post by Lindsayt »

Almost all of my best sounding records from the 1980's are 12" singles, which you couldn't play on pre-Lingo LP12's.

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Re: Flat earth nexus of forces

Unread post by istari_knight »

Its plausible. Most if not all Naim owners seem to enjoy Dire Straights, Blue Nile, Flock of Seagulls etc :grin:

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Re: Flat earth nexus of forces

Unread post by _D_S_J_R_ »

Linn made a 45 adaptor and I still have a couple somewhere...
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Re: Flat earth nexus of forces

Unread post by terrybooth »

_D_S_J_R_ wrote:Linn made a 45 adaptor and I still have a couple somewhere...
If I remember correctly, you needed another belt as well as the adaptor.
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Re: Flat earth nexus of forces

Unread post by _D_S_J_R_ »

Same belt, but obviously the existing one risked being stretched a bit more if the adaptor was used a lot.

The Two Linn-Records Blue Nile albums have been remastered - properly - by the original producer and were released a couple of years or so ago. very good they are too, the 'balls' that was diluted in the first CD issue (but was there on the awesome masters I heard) being restored properly.
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Re: Flat earth nexus of forces

Unread post by wallace »

brit-pop wrote:As for Pink Floyd's helicopters I had to reproduce a lot of samples for our live tribute show and spent some time in this one to ensure the panning was just right. After you've heard this and the explosion at the end of 'in the flesh' on a 12kw PA, no hifi system is really going to compare so why even bother.
I quite agree,ever since i heard Weather Report live a few times ,i decided that if you want hear the space shuttle taking off best go to florida,or a live concert.No point in trying to replicate that at home,besides why upset next door any more than i already do. :mrgreen:
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